thanks rich, was taught and always believed we shouldn't "ask" for more information, that it was up to the defense to tell you what they were appealing. I just don't like the idea of asking, in the OP do you first ask, are you appealing the first runner or second? F4, ans. second, ok, are you appealing whether he failed to touch second on the way by, or are you appealing whether he left first early? ans. he failed to touch second? safe. F4, ok now I want too appeal that he left first early? totally different appeal at a different base so I would (should) allow both appeals? now do I have an out at first? I do understand this is really extreme but where do we draw the line? I am not trying too be being difficult, just how I see this OP. I still want to know how they took the run off the board?