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CI runner placement

carolinablue

By carolinablue
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carolinablue

carolinablue

Posted
Posted

Watching my sons LL senior game today I saw this play:

R3, batters swing makes contact with catchers mitt and ball is fouled to back stop. Pu call CI and sends BR to 1B. R3 was left at 3B. Is this correct ? I was thinking R3 should be awarded a base but am not sure. Please include a rule reference if possible.

PS- I'm not just being lazy, I looked in the rule book but could not find it.

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willv28

willv28

Posted
Posted

The umpire was correct. Runners only advance on the CI if forced to. The only time you can score the run is if they were trying to steal or score on a squeeze. Very unlikely to be the case.

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

Watching my sons LL senior game today I saw this play:

R3, batters swing makes contact with catchers mitt and ball is fouled to back stop. Pu call CI and sends BR to 1B. R3 was left at 3B. Is this correct ? I was thinking R3 should be awarded a base but am not sure. Please include a rule reference if possible.

PS- I'm not just being lazy, I looked in the rule book but could not find it.

6.08© only says the batter is entitled to a base. And, notice none of the rules under 7.05 says a runner advances on it. That is why it is only if forced by the batter.

carolinablue

carolinablue

Posted
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Posted (edited)

Thanks. That was one I knew I would see myself someday. I guess it's not what the rules say but what they don't say in this situation.

Edited by carolinablue
moblue

moblue

Posted
Posted

Thanks. I re-read the rule before I posted and it sounded like a correct application of it, but it makes me wonder if I've been applying it wrong all these years.

Example: Passed ball and pitcher runs home to cover. R3 tries to steal. Pitcher steps A)directly on the center of or B)to the 3rd base side of home plate before he has caught the ball. That is an automatic balk correct?

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Thanks. I re-read the rule before I posted and it sounded like a correct application of it, but it makes me wonder if I've been applying it wrong all these years.

Example: Passed ball and pitcher runs home to cover. R3 tries to steal. Pitcher steps A)directly on the center of or B)to the 3rd base side of home plate before he has caught the ball. That is an automatic balk correct?

No, it's not a balk. How can you have a balk *after* a passed ball?

LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted

The only other thing to remember is if R3 is stealing home on the CI, then it both a balk and a CI.

:shrug:You got me...where's the balk?:wow:

moblue

moblue

Posted
Posted

noumpere, LMSANS, take a look at rule 7.07 and see how you interpret it. It's a little vague and leaves itself open to interpretation... go figure. :wow:

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

noumpere, LMSANS, take a look at rule 7.07 and see how you interpret it. It's a little vague and leaves itself open to interpretation... go figure. :banghead:

It's not vague and it's not open to interpretation (at least not to the type of interpretation you're trying to give it).

CI is a rule to allow the batter an unhindered opportunity to hit the pitch.

A balk is a rule to prevent unfair deception of the runners (by the pitcher).

7.07 is a rule to stop the defense from preventing a squeeze play.

Once there's a passed ball, there's no more pitch (there is still a pitched ball -- but that doesn't matter, here), no more pitcher, no more squeeze play.

Three strikes and you're out.

RIF.

LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted

7.07 If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

I still don't see a balk in the OP. The batter hits the catchers glove, not the back of his head.

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

7.07 If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

I still don't see a balk in the OP. The batter hits the catchers glove, not the back of his head.

I don't believe anyone said 7.07 applied to the OP. MST only mentioned it if R3 was stealing. I think that was overlooked is the IF part. I don't believe he was implying to apply rule 7.07.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

I don't believe anyone said 7.07 applied to the OP. MST only mentioned it if R3 was stealing. I think that was overlooked is the IF part. I don't believe he was implying to apply rule 7.07.

That's correct, I was just mentioning 7.07 as an additional part of the CI possibilties.

moblue

moblue

Posted
Posted

Sorry, I wasn't meaning for it to apply to the OP. I first was questioning if 7.07 was the rule he was applying in the situation, then started a discussion on that rule itself. Sorry to hijack the thread.

...and I just now, after almost THREE FREAKIN' YEARS of trying to "decipher" this rule, believe I understand it. It is in place for a runner scoring while the pitcher is set and about to pitch. Then R3 tries to steal but the catcher runs in front of or steps on home plate before the batter has the chance to swing at the pitch (or during that time). This is when the penalties in 7.07 come into play. Do I finally understand this right? If I don't, please PM me so I can start another thread.

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Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

doesnt the offensive coach get a choice of putting the batter up again or having him go to 1st (in the original post)?

Technically, the coach does have the option of taking the play or CI. But, I doubt any coach will take a strike and no advancement over BR getting 1B.

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