Nats Turn Triple Play on Mets When Umps Don't Make a Call

[Lindsay]

Washington turned a triple play on New York after 1B Umpire Alfonso Marquez's crew didn't signal whether Mets batter Jesse Winker's line drive was caught by Nationals first baseman Nathaniel Lowe, a somewhat similar play to the recent double play that resulted in minor league manager Jose Moreno's ejection in Double-A...but this is really about umpire positioning.

In DC, with none out and runners on first and second baes, Mets batter Winker hit a line drive to Nats first baseman Lowe, who may or may not have fielded the batted ball on a bounce—New York wouldn't know, because none of the four umpires signaled safe or out for the catch / no catch element of this play.

While the Mets stumbled around in confusion after the no-call, Washington turned a triple play with first baseman Lowe ruled to have caught the batted ball for out number one, runner R2 Brandon Nimmo out at second base on appeal for out number two, and R1 Mark Vientos out at first base for out number three.

Umpire positioning led to a coverage vacuum contributing to the catch/no catch chaos, as 2B Umpire Lance Barrett's starting position outside the fielders with runners on base ran afoul of the MLB Umpire Manual's approved teaching for four-person positioning with runner(s).

This isn't just a problem unique to this game, it's systemic in recent MLB memory, as second base umpires have increasingly opted to work outside even with runners, despite the Manual's instruction and assumption that all second base umpires will work inside (at the cut of the infield grass) with runner(s) on base.

The MLBUM coverage responsibilities chart states that the second base umpire has catch/no catch responsibility for a first baseman ranging to their right on an infield line drive, but when U2 is working outside, they lose their advantageous angle to see the play. With the play going away from U1, this was not 1B Umpire Alfonso Marquez's call to make, so, effectively, no one clearly called in real time a line out, and the resulting confusion led to a Nationals' triple play.

So as we initially opined back when umpires began working outside with runner(s), the starting position of U2 outside is problematic for certain plays with runners on base. This is just the latest example of what happens when U2 starts out with runners instead of playing in.

Video as follows:
Alternate Link: Critical flaw in bad positioning contrary to prior mechanics led to confusing play

View the full article

[jimurrayalterego]

6 hours ago, Lindsay said:

Washington turned a triple play on New York after 1B Umpire Alfonso Marquez's crew didn't signal whether Mets batter Jesse Winker's line drive was caught by Nationals first baseman Nathaniel Lowe, a somewhat similar play to the recent double play that resulted in minor league manager Jose Moreno's ejection in Double-A...but this is really about umpire positioning.

 

In DC, with none out and runners on first and second baes, Mets batter Winker hit a line drive to Nats first baseman Lowe, who may or may not have fielded the batted ball on a bounce—New York wouldn't know, because none of the four umpires signaled safe or out for the catch / no catch element of this play.

 

While the Mets stumbled around in confusion after the no-call, Washington turned a triple play with first baseman Lowe ruled to have caught the batted ball for out number one, runner R2 Brandon Nimmo out at second base on appeal for out number two, and R1 Mark Vientos out at first base for out number three.

 

Umpire positioning led to a coverage vacuum contributing to the catch/no catch chaos, as 2B Umpire Lance Barrett's starting position outside the fielders with runners on base ran afoul of the MLB Umpire Manual's approved teaching for four-person positioning with runner(s).

 

This isn't just a problem unique to this game, it's systemic in recent MLB memory, as second base umpires have increasingly opted to work outside even with runners, despite the Manual's instruction and assumption that all second base umpires will work inside (at the cut of the infield grass) with runner(s) on base.

 

The MLBUM coverage responsibilities chart states that the second base umpire has catch/no catch responsibility for a first baseman ranging to their right on an infield line drive, but when U2 is working outside, they lose their advantageous angle to see the play. With the play going away from U1, this was not 1B Umpire Alfonso Marquez's call to make, so, effectively, no one clearly called in real time a line out, and the resulting confusion led to a Nationals' triple play.

 

So as we initially opined back when umpires began working outside with runner(s), the starting position of U2 outside is problematic for certain plays with runners on base. This is just the latest example of what happens when U2 starts out with runners instead of playing in.

Video as follows:
Alternate Link: Critical flaw in bad positioning contrary to prior mechanics led to confusing play

View the full article

With the benefit of my MLBTV subscription I think I can describe what happened. Barrett seemed to gesture to Marquez to call it although whether Barrett was in or out, in my opinion would give him a better look than Marquez. The defense knew it was a catch although there was a delay in Marquez looking for secure possession and VR. I can't judge if the offense was hindered as it seems they had made up their minds to run. But what I can't understand is Barrett safeing the tag of R1, knowing it was a catch and thus left early, while right after, calling the appeal out of R2 leaving early when the fielder stepped on 2B. That same fielder who tagged R1 for leaving early then got the out from Marquez at 1B for R1 leaving early. If Barret thought it was Marquez call, although it was effin obvious, you don't safe it, you tell them it's his call. Did Barrett not know you can tag a runner anywhere on the field to appeal a missed base or leaving early. 

[The Man in Blue]

Just to be clear . . . Barrett should have had an (umpire) unassisted triple play.  He should have had all three outs.  How rare is that?!

[jimurrayalterego]

3 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Just to be clear . . . Barret should have had an (umpire) unassisted triple play.  He should have had all three outs.  How rare is that?!

Yes, Jomboy's video makes it clear that Barrett's gesture was a catch signal to Marquez. Why Barrett didn't call it we don't know. Then why he safes R1 on his being tagged while calling the out on R2 with the tag of the base we don't know also. But getting an unassisted triple play that wasn't would not be his best look so thankfully he and Marquez share the goatrope.

 

[The Man in Blue]

Well, I mean, sure there is the whole initially blown call … but mechanically he should have had all three.  
 

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

 

I have a theory on the safe call: instant replay.  He was tagged on the base, so signal safe.  We know instant replay is inexplicably screwed up in the minutiae.  (Not saying I agree with it, just a theory.)

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

Well, I mean, sure there is the whole initially blown call … but mechanically he should have had all three.  
 

 

Technically R1 leaving early is Marquez call and when it's close if they appeal to the wrong umpire usually we would tell the fielder to appeal to the appropriate umpire. When the leaving early is so obvious can we poach the responsible umpire's call if the appeal is a tag of the runner in front of us? 

[dumbdumb]

management E for not letting the play be a reviewable call.

[dumbdumb]

all right, here is the motherload. go back to NL League Championship game 4 between Philadelphia(V) and Houston(H). Start the 4th inning at 44:00. is doug harvey, future hall of famer, doing the scissors or starting with a scissors and dropping that knee to the ground, which is in another discussion recently on stances. watch those pickoffs with ed vargo who would become the national league umpiring supervisor upon retirement. how did he work behind the plate. oh the scissors. could something have been going on during that time span. just made me start thinking. watch the next batter get a base hit and now runners are on 2nd and 1st.

so, here we go at 52:00. watch closely on the 1-2 pitch to maddux at 52:19. basically same play as OP but back to the pitcher. so watch the star studded crew work on this for the next 15 minutes and then watch the last words to chub feeney up to 1:08.30. see how everything was handled for a 15 minute span.

so reading on some old officiating.com or some similar sites or random articles, and similar googled items. it looks like some of the umpires who were tall went to the knee to relieve the pressure on the back. now you got to remember tall was pretty much 6 foot and over back in the day. so mcclelland, brinkman, harvey and some others would go down on the knee. the one blast/criticism on the knee was that it looked lazy, and obviously the quicker you could get out of it, the better it looked, but that lazy tag still floated around, but once again apparently it relieved some of the back pressure versus the scissors. some guys were good with the scissors like vargo who was not as tall. now, somewhere there is mention of the insurance issue because some stats were showing (only someone who had them, the insurance company, the disability company etc. who knows), found out the scissors was not helping healthwise. nothing goes into that very deeply factually, just alluded to, and probably rightfully so. but, now, most work like crawford did, cuzzi does, west did, etc. there are some who might have received a grandfather clause or something who knows. but most no longer work the scissors (i am sure i am forgetting several who do) as it is more healthy not to work it, so they say, or are forced not too now if an insurance issue is involved.

enjoy the game and see what you think below (hang with the whole incident) compared to the OP. some mention of this is the kind of play you just can't handle with IR or some type of TV review. did cosell say that. Misters, Harvey, Vargo, Crawford, Engel, Tata and Froemming. everyone except Crawford had at least 1 WS and Vargo with 3. this was Crawfords 1st LCS and he would go on to work 11 more and 5 WS.

 

 

[Velho]

Woah. President of the NL got involved from first row of the stands and they split the baby. Summarized at 1:04 (64 minutes).