LL rule on warm-ups

[HokieUmp]

As an umpire in the older divisions I get coaches trying to warm their pitchers up all the time and some are not too happy when I inform them that they can't. After it is explained to them, it seems to make sense to MOST of them. There always has to be a couple of rotten apples in the basket!

Actually, thanks for that post, because it brings up a follow-up question, then. Is this "no adults warm up the pitcher" rule for ALL levels of LL play, or is there a cutoff? In other words, does this extend to Jr and Sr LL?

[mtnump]

LL Rule 3.09 states "Managers or coaches must not warm up a pitcher at home plate or in the bullpen or elsewhere at any time." This applies to all levels of play.

[Nazrat]

LL Rule 3.09 states "Managers or coaches must not warm up a pitcher at home plate or in the bullpen or elsewhere at any time." This applies to all levels of play.

That is not the entire rule. Rules need context to be properly interpreted.

[mtnump]

It is straight out of the rulebook. Game preliminaries 3.09. The part that I did not quote was about players, managers and coaches not mingling in the stands, and that a manager or coach may stand by to observe the pitcher warming up. There is no other context. It is written as quoted in my first post. If there is no designation as to Minors, Majors, Juniors etc, it applies to all levels of play.

[Nazrat]

It is straight out of the rulebook. Game preliminaries 3.09. The part that I did not quote was about players, managers and coaches not mingling in the stands, and that a manager or coach may stand by to observe the pitcher warming up. There is no other context. It is written as quoted in my first post. If there is no designation as to Minors, Majors, Juniors etc, it applies to all levels of play.

Mtnump, I am not disagreeing that you quoted the relevant portion of the rule. I agree that it applies to all levels of play.

However, the fact that the sentence preceding the quoted sentence refers to game day situations only is valuable context if there is an argument that a coach cannot practice with a player on non-game days.

Context is needed due to the fact that Rule 3 is entitled Game Preliminaries and part of 3.09 refers to conduct during the game limits how the warm up rule should be applied IMO.

I am not disagreeing with your quote. However, the entire rule should be cited to clarify the context of the rule.

Thanks.

[mtnump]

Agreed...I just thought we had already made that mention in the thread...I was specifically answering the question as to whether it applied to all levels of play.

The idea of it outside of a game has some of these guys reaching.

[kylejt]

Again, we're back to "by the book" vs. "with the book".

So why is this rule there? Surely, a coach catching for his son in their front yard. Ah, but by the book says no, because of ".....or elsewhere at any time."

The Rules Taliban (better than Nazis, eh?) will say this pertains to practice too. Also back yards, alleys, and long hallways.

Fellas, it's under Game Preliminaries, so most of us can figure out it only pertains to game locations(the "Game" part), and just before the game starts(That would be "Preliminaries, now wouldn't it?). Most reasonable folks have determined that starts when the teams arrive at the field for a game, and that's usually an hour or so before.

[mstaylor]

The reason for the rule during games is to maximize participation.

[yawetag]

The reason for the rule during games is to maximize participation.

Little Johnny normally would be sitting on the bench instead of warming up another player?

I said it before, it's for legalities (whether Little League admits it or not). If an adult overthrows to a kid, causing an injury, he's open to liability. Let the kids throw to each other -- their speed and abilities are roughly equal.

[Rich Ives]

The reason for the rule during games is to maximize participation.

Little Johnny normally would be sitting on the bench instead of warming up another player?

I said it before, it's for legalities (whether Little League admits it or not). If an adult overthrows to a kid, causing an injury, he's open to liability. Let the kids throw to each other -- their speed and abilities are roughly equal.

It's not about legalities. It's been there forever and is a remnant of the original LL culture. It's about participation and a kids-only approach. It's one of the remnants of keeping the adults off the field. Until quite recently adults could not base coach either. Until even more recently adults could not go to the mound for the pitcher conference -you had to meet at the foul line and the coach could't cross it. The though was that the adults teach, then the kids go out and do the actual playing.

Now the "kids are too incompetent and stupid to do this stuff" mentality is taking over so the adults are getting more into the game.

[yawetag]

The though was that the adults teach, then the kids go out and do the actual playing.

Because warming up before a game is "playing." To be honest, I do enjoy the must-play rule -- it was the only way I got on the field as a kid.