Ask Randy - 8.5-j

[zoops]

Was just scanning some of the Ask Randy (Bruns) questions on arbiter and this one has me scratching my head a bit:  Is he not out because he didn't touch the base, even though he went well beyond it?  Whereas if he had touched the base and overslid, he'd be out if tagged? 

Rule:

8.5.j Exception 2

Question:

R1 is running on the pitch which is ball four. Both U1 and U2 call out “ball four!” but both R1 and defensive players play through. The swipe tag by F6 misses and the runner misses 2nd base and ends up 10 feet beyond the base. Should we rule that for the purpose of the rule, R1 has reached and gone beyond 2nd base and thus is at risk of being tagged out? Or should we call time and say that the runner is awarded 2nd base….no tag?

Answer:

R1 is entitled to 2^nd base due to the batter receiving a base on balls.  Put R1 at 2^nd base and continue play.

Here's rule 8.5-j

A runner is out when:

Art. j.

The individual fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner or the base after the runner has been forced to advance because the batter became a runner;

Exception - No runner can be forced out if a runner who follows in the batting order is put out first. However, if a runner is put out during live action, it does not remove the force on any runners who might subsequently be declared out for a running infraction.

Note 1  No run may score on any play when the third out is either a force out or the result of a batter-runner's failure to reach first base safely.

Note 2  The force is removed as soon as the base runner touches the base to which the runner is forced to advance; and if the runner overslides or overruns the base, the runner may be tagged out.

Note 3  If a runner tags the base to which the runner is forced and for some reason retreats toward the previous base, the runner is again subject to a force out.

[johnnyg08]

7 hours ago, zoops said:

Was just scanning some of the Ask Randy (Bruns) questions on arbiter and this one has me scratching my head a bit:  Is he not out because he didn't touch the base, even though he went well beyond it?  Whereas if he had touched the base and overslid, he'd be out if tagged? 

Rule:

8.5.j Exception 2

Question:

R1 is running on the pitch which is ball four. Both U1 and U2 call out “ball four!” but both R1 and defensive players play through. The swipe tag by F6 misses and the runner misses 2nd base and ends up 10 feet beyond the base. Should we rule that for the purpose of the rule, R1 has reached and gone beyond 2nd base and thus is at risk of being tagged out? Or should we call time and say that the runner is awarded 2nd base….no tag?

Answer:

R1 is entitled to 2^nd base due to the batter receiving a base on balls.  Put R1 at 2^nd base and continue play.

Here's rule 8.5-j

A runner is out when:

Art. j.

The individual fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner or the base after the runner has been forced to advance because the batter became a runner;

Exception - No runner can be forced out if a runner who follows in the batting order is put out first. However, if a runner is put out during live action, it does not remove the force on any runners who might subsequently be declared out for a running infraction.

Note 1  No run may score on any play when the third out is either a force out or the result of a batter-runner's failure to reach first base safely.

Note 2  The force is removed as soon as the base runner touches the base to which the runner is forced to advance; and if the runner overslides or overruns the base, the runner may be tagged out.

Note 3  If a runner tags the base to which the runner is forced and for some reason retreats toward the previous base, the runner is again subject to a force out.

. Hmmm....the base award is to the base, not beyond it. 

[zoops]

13 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

. Hmmm....the base award is to the base, not beyond it. 

That's always been my understanding, thus why I'm scratching my head over his answer.

[johnnyg08]

36 minutes ago, zoops said:

That's always been my understanding, thus why I'm scratching my head over his answer.

Could you imagine this happening in Omaha in June?

Something has to be lost in translation. Right? 

Now, there is an OBR Comment/interpretation that on a bases loaded walk and an "over slide" or "over run" we would allow the run to score...but it's still an out. 

FWIW, here's the OBR cite:
 

 

[johnnyg08]

I reached out to Mr. Bruns and received a response:

"If the runner touches the base and slides past it or rounds the base heading toward the next base (see diagram and the wording in Rule 8-6-a-3), he would be out if tagged.  If he has not touched the base or has not rounded the base as defined in 8-6-3, he would be placed at 2^nd base and play continued."

 

[johnnyg08]

For reference:

[Richvee]

Interesting. So if he slides over the base and tagged, he’s out. If he slides past the base and misses it, he gets to standup, and walk back to the base at no risk. Hmmmm 

[johnnyg08]

3 hours ago, Richvee said:

Interesting. So if he slides over the base and tagged, he’s out. If he slides past the base and misses it, he gets to standup, and walk back to the base at no risk. Hmmmm 

I can't say that I agree with the interp...but I'm just a guy. I'd like to see the video that caused the question to be asked in the first place. 

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, johnnyg08 said:

I can't say that I agree with the interp...but I'm just a guy. I'd like to see the video that caused the question to be asked in the first place. 

I get it. His answers are sometimes….shall I say vague?… sometimes makes me say Hmmmmm? 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

I get it. His answers are sometimes….shall I say vague?… sometimes makes me say Hmmmmm? 

Waffles