Pitching stance rule change allows sideways windup

[Jimurray]

NCAA appears to be going to OBR/Pro rule: https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/pitching-proposal-seeks-clarify-windup-set-position-baseball

Which leaves FED as the oddball and umps who defend the FED stance as same as NCAA out on a limb:)

[The Man in Blue]

That article made very little sense to me. 

Quote

A pitcher would be considered in the set/stretch position when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and his other foot in front of the pitcher’s plate while holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop.

You are not "facing the batter" if you are facing first or third base.  Or is this saying I can face the batter (shoulders in line with 1B/3B) and come set in a stretch?

However, in the scenario above, a pitcher could notify the home plate umpire that he is pitching out of a windup position before the beginning of an at-bat. The pitcher would be allowed to inform the umpire he is changing to pitch out of a windup during an at-bat when:

Jim!  Hey Jim!  He's in the stretch!  Did you get that Jim!  In the stretch!  Make sure the base runners and the other team know Jim!  Jim!  Did you get that!  Jim!  

When can we admit that making rules more lax does not fix things?  Go back to outlawing all the stupid s#!t instead of trying to justify it.

 

[Jimurray]

2 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

That article made very little sense to me. 

 

 

You are not "facing the batter" if you are facing first or third base.  Or is this saying I can face the batter (shoulders in line with 1B/3B) and come set in a stretch?

When can we admit that making rules more lax does not fix things?  Go back to outlawing all the stupid s#!t instead of trying to justify it.

 

Facing the batter does not involve the torso. The set position also requires the pitcher to "face the batter". 

[The Man in Blue]

2 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Facing the batter does not involve the torso. The set position also requires the pitcher to "face the batter". 

Hmmm ... interesting.  We have differing definitions of "facing".

Random image from the internet:

 

I would say the man is facing the camera.  I would say the woman is facing the man, but looking at the camera.

Their positions are how I envision the difference in starting positions between set/stretch (the woman) and windup (the man).

[grayhawk]

This change was lobbied by the coaches. They felt the previous rule was too restrictive.

[Jimurray]

20 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Hmmm ... interesting.  We have differing definitions of "facing".

Random image from the internet:

 

I would say the man is facing the camera.  I would say the woman is facing the man, but looking at the camera.

Their positions are how I envision the difference in starting positions between set/stretch (the woman) and windup (the man).

All three baseball codes would consider the set/ woman as facing the batter and require a set pitcher to “face the batter” in their rules. For FED it’s here: 

“SECTION 1 PITCHING

ART. 1 . . . The pitcher shall pitch while facing the batter from either a windup position (Art. 2) or a set position (Art. 3).”

Excerpt From
2020 NFHS Baseball Rules Book
NFHS
https://books.apple.com/us/book/2020-nfhs-baseball-rules-book/id1485298477
This material may be protected by copyright.

[The Man in Blue]

Indeed.  The rule sets (or NFHS anyway) only refer to foot positioning.

Hence, the issue with using the term "facing" without any definition or clarification. 

Facing: 

adjective

positioned with the front toward a certain direction

[aaluck]

I'm with @The Man in Blue on this. Enough with complicating things. Either have BOTH feet perpendicular (windup) or parallel (set). No 45*, no free foot 8 inches in front of the rubber.

Why do we feel the need to make folks guess or announce? If you have to announce what position you are in something is wrong!

Edited August 3, 2020 by aaluck

[Jimurray]

48 minutes ago, aaluck said:

I'm with @The Man in Blue on this. Enough with complicating things. Either have BOTH feet perpendicular (windup) or parallel (set). No 45*, no free foot 8 inches in front of the rubber.

Why do we feel the need to make folks guess or announce? If you have to announce what position you are in something is wrong!

You only have to announce if you are a sideways pitcher who has a parallel pivot foot postion for his windup as well as his set and runner/s on.  Sideways pitchers are  not uncommon in MLB and to tell the truth the requirement to declare is overkill. I have yet to see a sideways pitcher who I couldn't tell was going to windup or come set but someone might take advantage and I won't quible with requiring a declaration. Pitchers these days don't seem to like a perpendicular foot position and I don't see many that windup by stepping directly back of the rubber. The FED rule does not require a perpendicular foot position and many pitchers comply with what looks like a hybrid stance, both feet angled but pivot foot on the rubber and the free foot foward of the pivot but still in line with the front edge of the rubber.

[aaluck]

On 8/3/2020 at 1:30 PM, Jimurray said:

You only have to announce if you are a sideways pitcher who has a parallel pivot foot postion for his windup as well as his set and runner/s on.

I'm not disagreeing with you, believe me.  My only point is, if we have to announce something the rule needs to be cleaned up and I usually am working under Fed so this is not an issue for me.

I liken it to a batter in the box, without his hand up, having to announce he is ready. We know he is ready because he is in the box not asking for time. All I'm saying is we SHOULD be able to tell (by clear rules and foot position) whether a pitcher is in the windup or set position--so should the batter and the runners.  

All of this accommodating the pitcher that "learned from his private pitching coach" how to pitch in a hybrid to look cool has to go.  And I know because I see this every HS season--we fight with it all year.

Remember the definition of hybrid -- "a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture."  Again the set/windup being mixed and combined.

[aaluck]

On 7/27/2020 at 1:59 PM, grayhawk said:

They felt the previous rule was too restrictive.

By restrictive I guess they meant their pitchers couldn't pitch how they wanted to.

[The Man in Blue]

On 8/6/2020 at 3:20 PM, aaluck said:

By restrictive I guess they meant their pitchers couldn't pitch how they wanted to.

That, that, that.  Somewhere along the way we got away from playing the game properly and moved towards figuring out what we can get away with.

Absolutely agree with the definition of hybrid above that.  The rule book gives you two things to chose from.  Creating some cock-a-mamie thing in your own mind and then pushing it until it is considered legal is ridiculous.

Honestly, this (not hybrid pitching, but the fast-and-loose rule applications) is one of the driving factors that has led to me gradually reducing my baseball schedule and increasing my softball schedule.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

That, that, that.  Somewhere along the way we got away from playing the game properly and moved towards figuring out what we can get away with.

Absolutely agree with the definition of hybrid above that.  The rule book gives you two things to chose from.  Creating some cock-a-mamie thing in your own mind and then pushing it until it is considered legal is ridiculous.

Honestly, this (not hybrid pitching, but the fast-and-loose rule applications) is one of the driving factors that has led to me gradually reducing my baseball schedule and increasing my softball schedule.

Strop and Stroman might try to get away with something but most OBR hybrid and sideways pitchers are that way because it is a comfortable delivery for them. Even if they are not hybrid or sideways most pitcher’s first step is to the side while positioning the pivot foot parallel to the rubber. Hybrid and sideways pitchers just make easier to get to that foot position. Peruse some YouTube and find me a hybrid or sideways pitcher that you couldn’t tell was going to windup or not.