check swing interp OBR

[jkumpire]

Quick question:

OBR, no runner on or runners on, check swing on 2-2 count.

I remember years ago in some manual used by MLB or MiLB that if it is a check swing with a possible play after it, (i.e. on a passed ball, wild pitch, or a steal attempt in some situations) when an appeal is likely the BU can ring up the batter without a direct appeal by the PU. Is this just a fantasy, or is it still in use?

In FED there is a sprt of similar case pay in Rule 10 that says in this situation (2 strikes passed ball, 1B open, appeal by F2) the BU calls a strike on appeal and the BR is called out at 1B jogging down the line assuming it was ball 4 the crew can overturn the call and award the BR 1st because of the fact the appeal did not allow him a chance to get to 1B (10.2.3i).

There have been a couple of times this year in OBR games with a passed ball on a check swing, once with 2 out, where an early call by me as the BU might have made a difference on the play. And yes, the obvious solution is to go with your PU's call in cases like this and say no swing, but sometimes that might cause a problem.

Please feel free to ask questions if my post is not clear.

 

Thanks!.

   

10.2.3 SITUATION I:

With a count of three balls and two strikes on B1 and no runners on base, the pitch is made and the batter takes what appears to be a half swing. The plate umpire calls ball four as the ball gets away from F2. B1 trots to first base and F2 throws the ball to F3, who tags B1 prior to his reaching the base. F2 asks the plate umpire to check with the base umpire to see if it was a strike. The base umpire indicates that B1 did swing at the ball.

RULING: If, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, B1 would have reached first base before the throw if it had not been called ball four, the plate umpire can award B1 first base. The umpire-in-chief can rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision has placed a batter-runner in jeopardy. Advances and outs made by runners following a reversed call stand, if the call that was changed clearly did not place them in jeopardy.

 

[Richvee]

This is still taught. The clinic I attended last week , we talked about it. The verdict was leave that mechanic for the pros. For us, the PU needs to be on his toes. Know the situation and go to his partner immediately on a checked swing he rules a ball that gets past F2 

[Senor Azul]

What you ask about is referred to as a voluntary strike. It is discussed in every interpretation manual I have.

You can find it in the 2014 PBUC manual at paragraph 9.9 on page 104…in the 2015 MLB Umpire Manual in paragraph 62 on page 79…in the 2013 Wendelstedt manual on page 17…in the 2010 Jaksa/Roder manual on page 80…and it can be found in the 2016 BRD on page 72.

[jkumpire]

thank you for the reminder Senor, just needed to jog the brain a bit.

[jkumpire]

6 hours ago, Richvee said:

This is still taught. The clinic I attended last week , we talked about it. The verdict was leave that mechanic for the pros. For us, the PU needs to be on his toes. Know the situation and go to his partner immediately on a checked swing he rules a ball that gets past F2 

Yeah, I can see that, and that's why in one case I didn't use it when I probably should have. But since nobody in my area understands or even heard of the rule and I don't want to eject 5 guys over it I didn't use it.  .

[dumbdumb]

16 hours ago, jkumpire said:

Yeah, I can see that, and that's why in one case I didn't use it when I probably should have. But since nobody in my area understands or even heard of the rule and I don't want to eject 5 guys over it I didn't use it.  .

Sounds like you need to invite Richvee and Senor Azul to your area for some training. They will have your area up to speed in no time, resulting in better umpiring. Just make sure there is a decent dressing room or a convenient tree at the training site.

[jkumpire]

I am the local HS rules interpreter, it is my job to make sure umpires are up to speed on it. But we have very, very few OBR games anymore and I did happen to bring up the FED case play this season in one of our meetings. However, unless the BRD has a ruling that says the Voluntary strike is able to be used in FED, most of our area umpires will never have a rule set that can use it. 

[dumbdumb]

2 hours ago, jkumpire said:

I am the local HS rules interpreter, it is my job to make sure umpires are up to speed on it. But we have very, very few OBR games anymore and I did happen to bring up the FED case play this season in one of our meetings. However, unless the BRD has a ruling that says the Voluntary strike is able to be used in FED, most of our area umpires will never have a rule set that can use it. 

OK, so now you know you can use that maneuver and pre-game it, if you and your partner are involved in an OBR game.

Do you have everyone up to snuff on the last sentence Richvee gave you to keep everyone out of trouble in this situation when not using OBR, (i.e. "For us, the PU needs to be on his toes. Know the situation and go to his partner immediately on a checked swing he rules a ball that gets past F2.").

Otherwise the smart defensive manager waits till his catcher recovers the ball then asks you to get help with no runners on or if the batter would be the third out with runners on, which effectively freezes the batter in the box, although in FED you may ask, but I do not believe you are forced to ask.

[noumpere]

57 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

Otherwise the smart defensive manager waits till his catcher recovers the ball then asks you to get help with no runners on or if the batter would be the third out with runners on, which effectively freezes the batter in the box, although in FED you may ask, but I do not believe you are forced to ask.

I'm not sure how it "Freezes the runner in the box."

 

And, it's only slightly advanced for PU to ask without being asked in that situation.  (Unlike some previous poster, I don't think FED prohibits either move -- but I wouldn't give the answer as BU unless we had pre-gamed it.)

[jkumpire]

19 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

OK, so now you know you can use that maneuver and pre-game it, if you and your partner are involved in an OBR game.

Do you have everyone up to snuff on the last sentence Richvee gave you to keep everyone out of trouble in this situation when not using OBR, (i.e. "For us, the PU needs to be on his toes. Know the situation and go to his partner immediately on a checked swing he rules a ball that gets past F2.").

Otherwise the smart defensive manager waits till his catcher recovers the ball then asks you to get help with no runners on or if the batter would be the third out with runners on, which effectively freezes the batter in the box, although in FED you may ask, but I do not believe you are forced to ask.

dumbdumb,

With all due respect, I went to pro school in 1985 and keep up with rules and mechanics. The volunteer strike and its usage is nothing new and I regret bringing it up now. As to the FED case play, I spent fifteen minutes on it it at a local rules meeting I am involved in, is that enough?  If not please let me know.