Starting F1 Doesn't Face a Batter

[noumpere]

FED rules only.  Lineups are exchanged and then lightning is seen.  The skies open up a few minutes later and the game is suspended.

 

Does F1 listed on the lineup have to face a batter?  If he doesn't, can he play another position?  Can he "return" to pitch later?

 

FED rules indicate injury, incapacitation, illness, ejection or discipline remove the "must face a batter" requirement, and allow F1 to play another position but not pitch.  Are we applying the same rule to "weather?"

[scrounge]

Hmm, interesting question. I don't think it would apply, because the game has not started. Though the lineups were accepted, this is a no contest:

Rule 4-1-5

ART. 5 . . . The game begins when the umpire calls "Play" after all infielders, pitcher, catcher and batter are in position to start the game.

[maven]

My answer: "it depends."

As in any situation where there's an existing rule that is close but not exactly applicable, we should consider the point and purpose of the existing rule. We want to prevent a situation where coaches jockey their starting pitchers by substituting and re-entering, all prior to a pitch being thrown. Start a scrub, when the opponent starts a scrub, sub in your ace, etc. Nip that crap in the bud.

We permit an exception in cases where the starter can't go: injury, illness, incapacitation, discipline. These all apply to the person, not the situation. Weather is a situation.

Would we permit an exception if the visitors' bus was 30 minutes late? I doubt it. Coach picked his starter, and that's who's pitching even if we start late. So if weather creates a delay, I'd say the starter has to pitch. Same day, same pitcher.

But if weather causes rescheduling to a different day, then I'd think we should allow new lineups, with new starters.

[Replacematt]

41 minutes ago, maven said:

My answer: "it depends."

As in any situation where there's an existing rule that is close but not exactly applicable, we should consider the point and purpose of the existing rule. We want to prevent a situation where coaches jockey their starting pitchers by substituting and re-entering, all prior to a pitch being thrown. Start a scrub, when the opponent starts a scrub, sub in your ace, etc. Nip that crap in the bud.

We permit an exception in cases where the starter can't go: injury, illness, incapacitation, discipline. These all apply to the person, not the situation. Weather is a situation.

Would we permit an exception if the visitors' bus was 30 minutes late? I doubt it. Coach picked his starter, and that's who's pitching even if we start late. So if weather creates a delay, I'd say the starter has to pitch. Same day, same pitcher.

But if weather causes rescheduling to a different day, then I'd think we should allow new lineups, with new starters.

What is your definition of "suspended" (the word used in the OP?) Here, it means that it was moved to a different day.

[noumpere]

22 minutes ago, Matt said:

What is your definition of "suspended" (the word used in the OP?) Here, it means that it was moved to a different day.

That is how I meant it.  The game was scheduled for Wednesday (say), lineups were exchanged and official (rule 1-2 or something in FED), before a pitch could be thrown the lightning / rain came.  The game will "resume" on Thursday (say).

 

Or, if it matters (I don't think it does), a couple of pitches were thrown and then the game was suspended.  Will "restart" with a 1-1 )or whatever) count.  Home F1 faced "1/2" a batter; Visiting F1 hasn't faced anyone.

[Jimurray]

21 minutes ago, noumpere said:

That is how I meant it.  The game was scheduled for Wednesday (say), lineups were exchanged and official (rule 1-2 or something in FED), before a pitch could be thrown the lightning / rain came.  The game will "resume" on Thursday (say).

 

Or, if it matters (I don't think it does), a couple of pitches were thrown and then the game was suspended.  Will "restart" with a 1-1 )or whatever) count.  Home F1 faced "1/2" a batter; Visiting F1 hasn't faced anyone.

That would be a "no game" unless the state adopted suspended game procedures. If they adopted suspended game procedures they might have addressed the issue. I would think it would be like OBR where F1 is not required to pitch and the penalties would not apply.

 

[noumpere]

7 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

That would be a "no game" unless the state adopted suspended game procedures. If they adopted suspended game procedures they might have addressed the issue. I would think it would be like OBR where F1 is not required to pitch and the penalties would not apply.

 

The state suspends all games (well, at least those that have had a pitch; I don't know of any specific rules about line-ups-but-no-pitch games that would be different) unless they are complete (4.5 or 5 innings).

[scrounge]

35 minutes ago, noumpere said:

That is how I meant it.  The game was scheduled for Wednesday (say), lineups were exchanged and official (rule 1-2 or something in FED), before a pitch could be thrown the lightning / rain came.  The game will "resume" on Thursday (say).

 

Or, if it matters (I don't think it does), a couple of pitches were thrown and then the game was suspended.  Will "restart" with a 1-1 )or whatever) count.  Home F1 faced "1/2" a batter; Visiting F1 hasn't faced anyone.

In the first case, since per 4-1-5 the game never started, I'd say there's nothing to resume and the lineups that were accepted for Wed's game don't apply since it's not Wed and there was no game yet. Does it explicitly say so? No, but that seems to me the best way to handle.

In the second case - I think it definitely matters - we have an actual game, that is now suspended. So all actions with that game pick up as if they were the same day. Now I'd say visitor F1 does have to face a batter, pending the other exceptions (injury, etc).

[noumpere]

7 minutes ago, scrounge said:

In the first case, since per 4-1-5 the game never started, I'd say there's nothing to resume and the lineups that were accepted for Wed's game don't apply since it's not Wed and there was no game yet. Does it explicitly say so? No, but that seems to me the best way to handle.

 

Even though the game hasn't started, the substitution rules are in effect.  4-1-3.  Does that matter?

[Rich Ives]

You got lightning between the plate meeting and the scheduled start time five minutes later. So no one looked at the sky and their weather app before the meeting and said "we're outta here"? 

Just how much brainpower was at work here?  

[scrounge]

6 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Even though the game hasn't started, the substitution rules are in effect.  4-1-3.  Does that matter?

I would say yes....for that game. But if the game never happened and is rescheduled, then those wouldn't be operative. It really gets to the (somewhat pedantic) point of what the indiv state/region policy is on this, if there is even one. We can definitively say that, by rule, the game did not start on the given day. Now is it the same game that is just suspended and continued - and indeed, started - on a separate day? Can you suspend something that didn't occur? I guess. But I'd say it makes much more sense to simply say that game never started, it didn't happen, it was rescheduled. Different lineups, start over.

But like Rich said....seriously? Look up, people. Or get that magic first pitch in!

[Jimurray]

23 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

You got lightning between the plate meeting and the scheduled start time five minutes later. So no one looked at the sky and their weather app before the meeting and said "we're outta here"? 

Just how much brainpower was at work here?  

Coach brainpower.

[Replacematt]

54 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

You got lightning between the plate meeting and the scheduled start time five minutes later. So no one looked at the sky and their weather app before the meeting and said "we're outta here"? 

Just how much brainpower was at work here?  

I don't know about you, but we've had storms develop directly overhead in a matter of minutes. 

And to the more salient point, where I work, it wouldn't matter--HS games that get suspended start anew unless they have reached a regulation game, so there's never an issue with lineups.

[Rich Ives]

16 minutes ago, Matt said:

I don't know about you, but we've had storms develop directly overhead in a matter of minutes. 

 

Doesn't happen here. Too many indicators in play also.