Dropped 3rd Strike Check Swing

[tempetoro]

JV Game bases empty 2 out.  2-2 count, BR check swings at a ball in the dirt.  Before I can go to my partner, BR is already down the line running to first.  He gets thrown out at first.  OHC walks towards me and I ask my partner "did he go?."  Partner signals yes and we all play on.  This looked so bad but it has never happened to me before.  I lurk on here all the time and love all the knowledge everyone brings so what is the proper mechanic for this situation? 

[maven]

The proper mechanic is to appeal to BU immediately. Don't worry about the batter: we want to get the call on the table, so that both teams have a fair opportunity to play.

In your case, because the batter took off, the offense had no grounds for complaint about the delayed call (it's usually the offense that gets screwed on these).

You got lucky: next time, don't wait.

[PonyUmpire]

If there's a questionable check swing on a D3K, you need to come up right away and come up big. Don't wait for someone to ask. The batter immediately started running to first, so maybe he thought he went. This suggests that maybe you could have gotten it yourself (which is always preferable in these situations).

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[tempetoro]

Thanks.  The batter taking off so quickly caught me off guard.  Next time I'll nail it. 

[noumpere]

Good answers here.  Good answers in the very similar thread in the "Ask The Umpire" newbie section.

[refump10]

What Maven said.  Also, if you are the BU, and you have a swing, don't necessarily wait for PU to ask.  Come out big with a hammer and yell "That's a swing", "Yes he went", something like that.  More often than not, the offense will complain, but the purpose of this is to give the BR a chance to run to first. Some people think this is an advanced mechanic, but if you think about it, this mechanic is about protecting the BR

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[Jimurray]

33 minutes ago, refump10 said:

What Maven said.  Also, if you are the BU, and you have a swing, don't necessarily wait for PU to ask.  Come out big with a hammer and yell "That's a swing", "Yes he went", something like that.  More often than not, the offense will complain, but the purpose of this is to give the BR a chance to run to first. Some people think this is an advanced mechanic, but if you think about it, this mechanic is about protecting the BR

 

Just make sure in FED that your partner agrees with the "voluntary strike mechanic". He doesn't have to go in FED if appealed.

[NCAAump2]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:36 PM, refump10 said:

What Maven said.  Also, if you are the BU, and you have a swing, don't necessarily wait for PU to ask.  Come out big with a hammer and yell "That's a swing", "Yes he went", something like that.  More often than not, the offense will complain, but the purpose of this is to give the BR a chance to run to first. Some people think this is an advanced mechanic, but if you think about it, this mechanic is about protecting the BR

 

I don't 100% agree with this, especially if you haven't pre-gamed this with your partner.  While I agree that a decision needs to be made quickly, you should probably wait for your partner to ask you on the appeal.  If you automatically come up with a "YES HE DID!" and a big hammer if a. your partner hasn't come to you yet, or b. the offense doesn't think it was even close, you've likely just created a big SH*# storm, with little rule support to back you up on your initial call without the appeal.  I just feel like it's a bad situation and likely an ejection waiting to happen.

[maven]

9 minutes ago, MUAump2 said:

I don't 100% agree with this, especially if you haven't pre-gamed this with your partner.  While I agree that a decision needs to be made quickly, you should probably wait for your partner to ask you on the appeal.  If you automatically come up with a "YES HE DID!" and a big hammer if a. your partner hasn't come to you yet, or b. the offense doesn't think it was even close, you've likely just created a big SH*# storm, with little rule support to back you up on your initial call without the appeal.  I just feel like it's a bad situation and likely an ejection waiting to happen.

Have you thought this all the way through? Who will complain about this mechanic? The offense? Their batter got a fair opportunity to reach 1B. The defense? They got a strike and a fair opportunity for an out. Nobody has a good basis for complaining because the mechanic made the situation fairer for both teams.

What "rule support" are you talking about? The PU would (or should) have appealed anyway, at some point, and the BU would have rung up the batter then. All this mechanic does is put that info out sooner. That's the ONLY difference.

I have said all along that this mechanic is "advanced," partly because it's conditions of application are rather precise, and that makes it optional. If you're not comfortable with it, then use one of your alternatives. Either ring up the batter once F2 has recovered the ball and can make an easy play on him, or stick with PU's ball call, which you know is incorrect. Those options shouldn't sound particularly appetizing either.

The source of the problems here is not the BU, it's the PU. He can either ring up that strike himself on the check swing, or appeal immediately. But I don't let a weak PU dictate my mechanics as BU. And I certainly don't follow the "path of least resistance" school of umpiring.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Have you thought this all the way through? Who will complain about this mechanic? The offense? Their batter got a fair opportunity to reach 1B. The defense? They got a strike and a fair opportunity for an out. Nobody has a good basis for complaining because the mechanic made the situation fairer for both teams.

What "rule support" are you talking about? The PU would (or should) have appealed anyway, at some point, and the BU would have rung up the batter then. All this mechanic does is put that info out sooner. That's the ONLY difference.

I have said all along that this mechanic is "advanced," partly because it's conditions of application are rather precise, and that makes it optional. If you're not comfortable with it, then use one of your alternatives. Either ring up the batter once F2 has recovered the ball and can make an easy play on him, or stick with PU's ball call, which you know is incorrect. Those options shouldn't sound particularly appetizing either.

The source of the problems here is not the BU, it's the PU. He can either ring up that strike himself on the check swing, or appeal immediately. But I don't let a weak PU dictate my mechanics as BU. And I certainly don't follow the "path of least resistance" school of umpiring.

Depending on the count the defense may not want an appeal on a DTK to the backstop and the PU may not have to go. So both of you should concur on the voluntary strike.

[refump10]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 0:18 PM, Jimurray said:

Depending on the count the defense may not want an appeal on a DTK to the backstop and the PU may not have to go. So both of you should concur on the voluntary strike.

The only time you use this is with 2 strikes and no runner on first or with two outs.  The only reason I can think of is that the defense either:

a) ball goes to the backstop and they have no hope of throwing the BR out; or

b) the ball gets away and they want to have the catcher get back to next to the batter before they appeal.

Either way, the mechanic is there to protect the offense and keep the playing field level. I don't understand the push back on this. BTW, this is the mechanic taught at

[refump10]

Sorry, this is the mechanic taught at umpire school. If it's good enough there, it's good enough at any level I work (for me

[RichMSN]

If the runner runs immediately and your timing is good, you're going to come up and get this one yourself.  It's a free one for you.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, refump10 said:

Sorry, this is the mechanic taught at umpire school. If it's good enough there, it's good enough at any level I work (for me

It's good at any level where the PU has to go and both umpires know the mechanic. It's good at the only levels I know that don't require the PU to go, FED and LL, if both umpires know and concur on the mechanic.

[refump10]

Fair enough. This is part of my HS pregame so we are all on the same page.  Our HS association has pretty much come around to OBR/NCAA to go ahead and appeal if asked. I don't really understand the reluctance of some umpires to go to their partner if asked by the defense.  What's the worst that can happen?  You get another strike...which is closer to another out...which is closer to:

[Minnz]

I echo the idea of hey if the batter took off running, bang him since he sold the swing for you.