Overrunning 1B

[Jimurray]

Perusing OBR rule changes and got me thinking. I know, dangerous thing.

Batter-runner overruns 1B and thinks the throw got away so he brakes down and starts for 2B while looking for the overthrow. The throw hit the coach, unintentional, and and is picked up by F3 who is able to tag 1B:

1. As the BR realizes and starts back for 1B.

2. As the BR realizes and continues to run to 2B.

I have an out in 1. What do I have in 2?

[NorthTexasUmp]

Why would you not have an out in 2? If he made a move towards second, which he did if he's running that way, and he is tagged off a base, he is out.

[maven]

Unless it's a missed base appeal, I have no out in either case for tagging a base. To be out, a runner off a base other than a force play must be tagged.

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, maven said:

Unless it's a missed base appeal, I have no out in either case for tagging a base. To be out, a runner off a base other than a force play must be tagged.

Rule 5.09(c)

(3) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to
the base immediately, and he or the base is tagged prior
to the runner returning to first base;

[Rich Ives]

38 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Perusing OBR rule changes and got me thinking. I know, dangerous thing.

Batter-runner overruns 1B and thinks the throw got away so he brakes down and starts for 2B while looking for the overthrow. The throw hit the coach, unintentional, and and is picked up by F3 who is able to tag 1B:

1. As the BR realizes and starts back for 1B.

2. As the BR realizes and continues to run to 2B.

I have an out in 1. What do I have in 2?

If he's tagged off base he's out in both cases for being tagged while off base.

If he's not tagged he's safe.

What's confusing you?

[Jimurray]

6 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

If he's tagged off base he's out in both cases for being tagged while off base.

If he's not tagged he's safe.

What's confusing you?

The OBR rule which allows tagging the base.

[NorthTexasUmp]

Ok. I mis-read the OP but others have answered!

[Richvee]

5.09(b)(11)

He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base and he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged.

 

To me that means once he's made any attempt towards second, he must be tagged. Even if he started for 2nd, changed his mind and heads back to first...still must be tagged.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

5.09(b)(11)

He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base and he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged.

 

To me that means once he's made any attempt towards second, he must be tagged. Even if he started for 2nd, changed his mind and heads back to first...still must be tagged.

I would agree. I read too much into 5.09(c)3 being flagged as changed in 2016

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The OBR rule which allows tagging the base.

If he made a move to second, he didnt' "overrun" the base.

[Rich Ives]

7 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The OBR rule which allows tagging the base.

Only on an appeal. This isn't one.

[Jimurray]

27 minutes ago, noumpere said:

If he made a move to second, he didnt' "overrun" the base.

He didn't immediately return either. But I agree I was overthinking a perceived change. OBR does allow an appeal of an overrun 1B if the runner does not attempt 2B. So when would we use an out call on an appeal of overrunning/not returning immediately when we would might also be calling abandoment. Just stopping to take off your gear is not grounds for that call.

[Jimurray]

6 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Only on an appeal. This isn't one.

Actually, this is listed as an appeal play. 

[Rich Ives]

2 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Actually, this is listed as an appeal play. 

The runner turned to 2B in both cases. Not an overrun now. No appeal now.

A straight overrun with a failure to immediately return can be appealed.

7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—

(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and
he or the base is tagged;

 

[Jimurray]

16 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

The runner turned to 2B in both cases. Not an overrun now. No appeal now.

A straight overrun with a failure to immediately return can be appealed.

7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—

(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and
he or the base is tagged;

 

Turning to 2B is not failure to return immediately. But, attempting to advance to 2B is not returning immediately but is not an overrun. 

[Rich Ives]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Turning to 2B is not failure to return immediately. But, attempting to advance to 2B is not returning immediately but is not an overrun. 

The failure to return immediately applies only on straight overruns. The rule says "and" which means both conditions must be met.

He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately,