Problems with Plus POS Orders (again)

[BT_Blue]

1 minute ago, Scissors said:

What I don't really understand about +POS is how it fell off so hard. I was watching some MLB games from the 90s and you see guys with the POS samurai CP and that POS resin (?) mask that I heard explodes sometimes. I can't find any history on the company so does anyone know why/how they fell off so hard? I'm guessing it has something to do with the West Vest patent but I'm sure there's more to the story. 

The resin mask was only dangerous in the first version. Succeeding versions were fixed by All Star. The company that originally released the mask. With +POS leasing the frame to put their emblem on it.

While the BB2000 cp was cool to look at, the thing was an ABSOLUTE FURNACE!!! The outer layer was a vinyl that was hot and sweaty and uncomfortable. And the small plates would snap off regularly from repeated hits.

My best guess as to why it lots its top billing has to do with other companies joining the space and doing it better. National companies like Honigs and Gerry Davis had better selection at pretty much the same price. Now companies like Ump-Attire and Out West lead the way into the future.

[Marcus6]

1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

The resin mask was only dangerous in the first version. Succeeding versions were fixed by All Star. The company that originally released the mask. With +POS leasing the frame to put their emblem on it.

While the BB2000 cp was cool to look at, the thing was an ABSOLUTE FURNACE!!! The outer layer was a vinyl that was hot and sweaty and uncomfortable. And the small plates would snap off regularly from repeated hits.

My best guess as to why it lots its top billing has to do with other companies joining the space and doing it better. National companies like Honigs and Gerry Davis had better selection at pretty much the same price. Now companies like Ump-Attire and Out West lead the way into the future.

Spot on about +POS.  Those of us old folks will recall +POS was the official uniform supplier for Minor League Baseball through maybe the mid 2000s when they shifted to Honigs for a bit and then to UA.  Like a lot of companies, +POS lost their way for a number of reasons. 

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, Scissors said:

What I don't really understand about +POS is how it fell off so hard. I was watching some MLB games from the 90s and you see guys with the POS samurai CP and that POS resin (?) mask that I heard explodes sometimes. I can't find any history on the company so does anyone know why/how they fell off so hard? I'm guessing it has something to do with the West Vest patent but I'm sure there's more to the story. 

It wasn't hard.

I had multiple orders from 2000 on that always seemed to get messed up. It was a decline--there is no reason that they should have existed after 2007. The fact we are talking about them at this point shows how incredibly gradual it was. 

[Marcus6]

14 hours ago, Matt said:

It wasn't hard.

I had multiple orders from 2000 on that always seemed to get messed up. It was a decline--there is no reason that they should have existed after 2007. The fact we are talking about them at this point shows how incredibly gradual it was. 

Small businesses are tough.  You saw it with Honig’s too.  Twenty years ago they were the gold standard (in my opinion).  And then mid to late 2000s Dick Honig started getting older and from what I heard from good sources started detaching himself from the day to day business, etc.  Honigs was a shell of themselves after like 2012Ish. 

[gnhbua93]

Spot on about +POS.  Those of us old folks will recall +POS was the official uniform supplier for Minor League Baseball through maybe the mid 2000s when they shifted to Honigs for a bit and then to UA.  Like a lot of companies, +POS lost their way for a number of reasons. 

Sounds like the spring company nowadays.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[MadMax]

20 hours ago, Scissors said:

What I don't really understand about +POS is how it fell off so hard. I was watching some MLB games from the 90s and you see guys with the POS samurai CP and that POS resin (?) mask that I heard explodes sometimes. I can't find any history on the company so does anyone know why/how they fell off so hard? I'm guessing it has something to do with the West Vest patent but I'm sure there's more to the story.

It has little to do with the West Vest patent, and more to do with the "Exclusive Supplier to MLB" designation that Wilson grabbed / has been granted by MLB. The patent knocked out Riddell and All-American, and effectively handcuffed Douglas, but for +POS, Carlucci and Honig's, the damage comes in the form of an international corporation muscling in on the "gear catalog". Yes, we acknowledge that the foot-and-a-half of real estate that is the PU's face and upper chest on a televised baseball game is one of the most valued segments in televised sports, but the likely more impactful effect is the supply of Wilson products to stadium locker rooms, to umpire schools, and having... influential umpires stumping for them, holding up pieces of equipment (Wilson Golds and Shock FXs) and saying, "This is all ya need!" 

It spelled the end of informed choice. 

21 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Gerry Davis had better selection at pretty much the same price.

Gerry Davis Sports is a bit different than Honig's, in that Davis doesn't have the hardgoods commitment that Honigs does. Their mask is actually a Diamond iX3, just with pads that have Davis tags stitched on. Their shins and CP, while unique, are produced under contract by Wilson. Their softgoods are not where margin loss occurs; it's with the hardgoods. Honigs had the advantage of being the Official Outfitter of MLB Umpires (_outfitter_, not supplier; there's a difference), but of their softgoods, only their plate coat would ever be seen on MLB broadcasts. 

22 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

My best guess as to why it lots its top billing has to do with other companies joining the space and doing it better.

It is an enormous challenge to coordinate a company through the entire production, sales, and service process. Wilson sells all their stuff via retail outlets (such as Dick's Sporting Goods, etc.). As does Smitty's. As does Douglas. Honig's got caught maintaining brick and mortar stores (six or seven of them at one time) in defiance of the Amazon model, and likely suffered for it. Ump-Attire went super bold by allowing for Free Returns, which is the only real way to encourage umpires to try hardgoods and softgoods out to size and spec with any confidence. However, Ump-Attire doesn't make (or brand) any of its own products. 

5 hours ago, FranklinT said:

Honigs was a shell of themselves after like 2012Ish.

Dick Honig wanted to retire, rightly so. So, he sold the business. The two guys who purchased the business did the one thing necessary to keep it operational – shrink it, consolidate it, and centralize all its stock and staff in one location. Now, they're a bit behind in developing and progressing their gear (for example, if I was counseling them, I'd be altering how their CP looks and functions; using smaller jock tags on their softgoods; and streamlining the softgoods lineup to jettison heather grey pants, "classic" (AKA "old") shirt and jacket styles, and offer shirt & pants options for women (specifically)). 

4 hours ago, gnhbua93 said:

Sounds like the spring company nowadays.

Are you referring to Force3? Force3 is in a bit of a bind. In fact, all sporting goods companies are due to the fallout from our societal mismanagement of COVID. Even with that considered, Force3's primary form of income is via catchers, not umpires. They must continue to appeal to catchers. And, we lost an entire year of baseball. The dominance of visibility that Wilson still has a grip on isn't doing Force3 any favors. Sure, catchers are buying Force3 defenders in quantity, but any chance of getting visibility amongst umpires is blocked by Wilson's gold "W", and the fact that a Force3 Defender is a weighty mask, too weighty for the likes of MLB umpires. 

If I was advising Force3 today, I'd advocate for two things: transfer the blast plates from within the segments of the UnEqual Chest Protector to the outside (and use an anchor-tab method, since the Wilson patent has expired), and develop a variant of your mask pads for use on other models and brands of masks. With the possible exception of Team Wendy's, the Force3 pads are using the most advanced materials for their construction. 

----

Good ideas, @JimKirk?

[BT_Blue]

Force3 also lost a ton of advertising last year because they became the official supplier for Babe Ruth baseball and all is affiliate leagues. I want to say there was a giant contract to shoe the BR World Series on a major network like FOX. But when the world ended last March, that all went straight out the window.

To add to what @MadMaxsaid on the Force3 equipment... maybe go to a lighter, but just as strong, material for their cages. Something like aluminum or the like. My other thing, which is what is holding me back from even trying my Force3, is I HATE leather pads! Give me a pad in a microfiber and I'm all yours!