Walk off Walk or Not?

[tempetoro]

Hello Gentleman,

I've only been umpiring for 2 years so I have never seen this.  I had a 16u playoff game under FED rules.  Home team blew 5 run lead in the 7th and had to bat in the bottom of the inning.  2 Out, Bases Full, batter draws a walk.  R2 runs home to celebrate and does not touch 3rd.  I'm in C and watch the play.  Amid the chaos, the defensive team appeals and I call the runner out for abandonment.  I talk with my partner and tell him what happened and we agree to negate the run and continue the game.  When I get home and look the rule up and OBR states that ONLY the batter need touch 1st and R3 needs to touch home.  Under FED I see that an umpire will not end the game until all runners touch their base. 

My question is

a. Is this play able to be appealed in FED (I couldn't find a penalty for not touching your awarded base during the winning run)?

b. Is it abandonment once the player leave his base path to go celebrate?

c. Did we get this right?

 

[grayhawk]

I think you got it as right as you could.  All runners have to touch the next base in Fed on a game ending walk.  What's unclear is what the umpire is supposed to do (besides "not end the game") to enforce it.  If a runner abandons his effort to touch the next base, the umpire is supposed to call the runner out without the need to appeal.  In a situation like this, I think you did the right thing by waiting for the defense to see this and to appeal (even though it's not technically an appeal since the runner didn't "miss" the base - he just never reached it).

[ricka56]

You say, "Hey dumbass (R2) touch 3B".

[noumpere]

 What's unclear is what the umpire is supposed to do (besides "not end the game") to enforce it. 

I think there's a case play that says, in effect, "ON APPEAL, the runner is out..."

You say, "Hey dumbass (R2) touch 3B".

Good preventive umpiring (although some will call it coaching.).  I usually say "You're required to touch third." -- so I'm just explaining a rule, not telling the kid what to do

[grayhawk]

I wrote Ken Allan and he said that calling the runner out for abandonment is the expectation.

[maven]

I wrote Ken Allan and he said that calling the runner out for abandonment is the expectation.

Time play with 2 outs?

[Mad Mike]

That's what I wondered too? Time play or if a runner who is forced, is called out for abandonment, time play or force out?

[maven]

That's what I wondered too? Time play or if a runner who is forced, is called out for abandonment, time play or force out?

To be honest, I wasn't really wondering...more like stirring the pot.

[noumpere]

I wrote Ken Allan and he said that calling the runner out for abandonment is the expectation.

Who is Ken Allan?

 

2012, Situation 18 (emphasis added):

SITUATION 18: In the bottom of the eighth inning, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense legally appeals while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a “force” out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning. (8-2-1, 8-2-6j, 9-1-1a and d)

[ricka56]

2012, Situation 18 (emphasis added):

SITUATION 18: In the bottom of the eighth inning, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense legally appeals while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a “force” out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning. (8-2-1, 8-2-6j, 9-1-1a and d)

That's all so totally unnecessary and will just piss all those who have had the victory snatched away.
If the other team wins, I hope the umpires don't sleep for a week. AVOID THIS. !!!

I usually say "You're required to touch third." -- so I'm just explaining a rule, not telling the kid what to do

[maven]

2012, Situation 18 (emphasis added):

SITUATION 18: In the bottom of the eighth inning, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense legally appeals while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a “force” out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning. (8-2-1, 8-2-6j, 9-1-1a and d)

Ain't FED grand?

Aside from the fact that this "appeal" would be neither a retouch nor a missed base appeal — the only 2 kinds — this play does NOT satisfy FED's own definition of a force out (2-24-1, unless of course this IS a valid appeal and it falls under 9-1-1d).

Great work, guys!

[noumpere]

I think the FED ruling is consistent with the OBR ruling when it's a base hit.  Fed just treats "awards" the same as base hits in this situation.  I don't view that as being "wrong", just different.

 

(In fact, I bet if you asked fans and probably many players and coaches who should be required to advance on a bases loaded walk-off, they'd mostly say "everyone".  And, while rules shouldn't be set to the beliefs of the fans / players / coaches, if you were creating the game / new rule you'd certainly take that into account.)

[Majordave]

This play is why I turn off my ears, put on my blinders and jog/run/walk very fast to get the hell off the field in FED games.  Stupid, stupid, stupid rule. 

[grayhawk]

Who is Ken Allan?

 

2012, Situation 18 (emphasis added):

SITUATION 18: In the bottom of the eighth inning, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense legally appeals while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a “force” out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning. (8-2-1, 8-2-6j, 9-1-1a and d)

Ken was on the NFHS rules committee for years.  I emailed him this interp and will let you know what he says.  I can't see how this is an appeal since it doesn't qualify as a missed base or one left too soon.

[noumpere]

I think "appeal" is the perfect (well, least bad) solution here.  The umpire doesn't have to get involved until the defense forces him to.