Abandoning a base

[Mizzou2016]

18U under OBR R1 , 1 Out Humpback liner just over the pitchers head, F6 comes across the infield to make what should have been a routine catch. Drops the ball. What should have happened: Umpire signals no catch, F6 throws out R1 at 2nd, we move forward with 2 outs runner on 1st. What actually happened: BU signals nothing, SS throws to 2nd, who then throws to 1st. The BR had already touched first, but thinking the ball was caught, was already 10 steps towards the 3rd base dugout by the time R1 is thrown out at 2nd. BR goes back to first, F3 has the ball on the base waiting for a call from BU. We conferenced, called R1 out on the force, and BR out for abandoning his base. Now I think this was the right call based on 5.09(d) (2015 OBR) Wondered what everyone else thought, and who has that no catch call in the infield? BU or PU? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[maven]

Fix it. Bad mechanics, bad rules knowledge, or bad judgment should not cost the defense a run or the offense an out.

[noumpere]

What were the coaches doing?

 

And, it's BU's call.

 

I'm probably keeping two outs, here.

[maven]

 

I'm probably keeping two outs, here.

​I doubt it. You're probably signaling no catch, so that the BR heads right back to 1B in full knowledge that he was not out on the catch.

[Mudder]

Fix it. Bad mechanics, bad rules knowledge, or bad judgment should not cost the defense a run or the offense an out.

Was the drop of the line drive very obvious to all, or was it very close?  Why did the 1B coach (assuming there was one) not tell his player to get back to 1B? The line drive drop in that case is BU's call, but why blame BR's lack of awareness of the play of BU?  Most B/R's, when they are not sure if they are out or not, will generally come back to 1B, until they are told they're out, then head back to the dugout

[MooseLoop]

BR should not abandon his base until he knows for sure he is out.  Would like to have seen the attempted catch, the movement to the dugout, and the rest of the play, but calling him out seems to have been within your discretion. 

 

OBR 5.09(b) (old 7.08) Retiring a Runner

Any runner is out when: . . .(2) after touching first base, he leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

Comment: Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the base path heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases. Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner.   . . .

PLAY—Runner believing he is called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases

[maven]

I agree that the coach and runner might share some blame: they erroneously assumed that it was a catch.

But their errors are 100% (ok, maybe 95%) preventable by the simple expedient of umpires communicating their calls. Suppose that the coach WAS watching, and he saw a catch from his angle. Do we still think he's incompetent for not directing his runner to remain on base when he had no reason to do so?

Sure, we could get an out for abandonment here — we would not be mistakenly applying that rule — but at what cost? The game is well on its way down the crapper if we give the defense an out they didn't earn.

For me, this situation is a lesson in game management, not an opportunity to learn more about abandonment (which should be a "last resort" rule).

[MooseLoop]

 

BR goes back to first, F3 has the ball on the base waiting for a call from BU. 

​So did BU also not make a safe call at 1B?  And did F3 not tag BR while off the base?Something sounds screwy in St. Looey.

Maven is right to be slow to call abandonment.  But a coach should not rely on their own catch/no-catch call.

 

[Mizzou2016]

The drop was very obvious. No mistaking it for being on the transfer. We definitely should've made a no catch call - I was at the plate and watching the play, glanced at the BR to see him touch first. There was a lot of confusion - neither I nor my partner made any call, the SS finally throws to second. R1 was still on first, which was what caused the BR to assume he was out. I didn't want to award the defense for missing an easy catch with a DP, but the offense didn't do anything to help themselves either. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Mizzou2016]

BU called out at 2nd and that was it - called time after the BR reached 1st the second time. As an aside - we conferenced, came to the conclusion that we had 2 outs. Then the OC complains and my partner wants to conference again! I am glad it was summer ball, any other league, that situation could have gotten out of hand. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

The drop was very obvious. No mistaking it for being on the transfer. We definitely should've made a no catch call - I was at the plate and watching the play, glanced at the BR to see him touch first. There was a lot of confusion - neither I nor my partner made any call, the SS finally throws to second. R1 was still on first, which was what caused the BR to assume he was out. I didn't want to award the defense for missing an easy catch with a DP, but the offense didn't do anything to help themselves either. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

​Sometimes, "time" is your best call.  then, you can sort it all out.

 

But, I wouldn't expect to have to do that in this situation in an 18U game (maybe the leading "1" is a typo and should not be there)

[Mizzou2016]

Lol no with the exception of this play the ball was pretty good - and if it had been 8U I csn almost guarantee the situation would have gotten out of hand. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[maven]

Lol no with the exception of this play the ball was pretty good - and if it had been 8U I csn almost guarantee the situation would have gotten out of hand. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

​I hear that: in my experience, the younger the players, the louder the howler monkeys.