dropped third strike, 12U USSSA rules

[fishnfed]

I have always understood that the rule interpretation is that the batter is automatically out with less than two outs, first base is occupied.  However, with two outs there has to be an out made.  This can be in the form of the catcher picking up the ball touching home (bases full); throwing the ball to 1st; or simply tagging the runner.  A coach asked for the "reason behind this rule".  I explained that there needs to be the third out "made" by the defense.  I'm not sure I explained it correctly or clearly.  Can I get some help from the field?

 

Thanks

[Magic]

Coach we don't make the rules, we just enforce them.

[noumpere]

Short answer:

 

1) The rules used to require the batter to always be put out (whether the pitch was caught or not -- and it was never caught in the earliest days of baseball).  Since F2 played well behind the batter, and given the condition of the ball and the grounds, this was far from a sure thing.

 

2) As the catcher moved up into his current postion, the out became all but automatic.  So, the rule was changed so that the batter was out if the pitch was caught.

 

3) Savvy catchers realized that if there was an R1, the catcher could drop the pitch and get an easy double play.  So, the rule was again chaged (to the present rule) so that the batter can try for first only if a (force-out) double play is not possible.

[fishnfed]

Short answer:

 

1) The rules used to require the batter to always be put out (whether the pitch was caught or not -- and it was never caught in the earliest days of baseball).  Since F2 played well behind the batter, and given the condition of the ball and the grounds, this was far from a sure thing.

 

2) As the catcher moved up into his current postion, the out became all but automatic.  So, the rule was changed so that the batter was out if the pitch was caught.

 

3) Savvy catchers realized that if there was an R1, the catcher could drop the pitch and get an easy double play.  So, the rule was again chaged (to the present rule) so that the batter can try for first only if a (force-out) double play is not possible.

that makes a lot of sense. thanks.  

[JHSump]

 

Short answer:

 

1) The rules used to require the batter to always be put out (whether the pitch was caught or not -- and it was never caught in the earliest days of baseball).  Since F2 played well behind the batter, and given the condition of the ball and the grounds, this was far from a sure thing.

 

2) As the catcher moved up into his current postion, the out became all but automatic.  So, the rule was changed so that the batter was out if the pitch was caught.

 

3) Savvy catchers realized that if there was an R1, the catcher could drop the pitch and get an easy double play.  So, the rule was again chaged (to the present rule) so that the batter can try for first only if a (force-out) double play is not possible.

that makes a lot of sense. thanks.  

 

It does make sense, but I am not sure it's the correct history.

 

The dropped third strike rule is in the very first set of rules drawn up by Alexander Cartwright (the rule set that developed over time into OBR).  The rule he wrote down was "Three balls being struck at and missed and the last one caught, is a hand-out; if not caught it is considered fair, and the striker bound to run."

 

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knickerbocker_Rules

[Richvee]

Actual number of balls and strikes changed more than a few times in the 1800's. At one point, fouls were not considered strikes. 

[Richvee]

Good stuff here

http://www.19cbaseball.com/rules.html

[grozzly]

  However, with two outs there has to be an out made.  This can be in the form of the catcher picking up the ball touching home (bases full)

 

 

 Possible ???? 

[DVA7130]

 

However, with two outs there has to be an out made.  This can be in the form of the catcher picking up the ball touching home (bases full)

 Possible ???? 

 

Uhhh....... Yes

[fishnfed]

 

  However, with two outs there has to be an out made.  This can be in the form of the catcher picking up the ball touching home (bases full)

 

 

 Possible ???? 

 

Sorry, maybe I should have said bases loaded or man on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd

[FleasOf1000Camels]

what if there were 4 outs?