OBR foul/FED fair

[Richvee]

11u little league rules. Kid pops a ball up on the right side, F3 and F4 play the "I got it/no you got it" game and the ball falls untouched,  about 10-15 feet on the fair side of 1B almost in a direct line towards 2nd base. Spin on the ball sends it rolling towards the foul line, and sure enough, the ball crosses the foul line, in front of 1B. I call foul and we move on. 

 

I couldn't help but think of the $hit$torm that would have ensued in a FED game. The ball was well beyond  that "imaginary line between 1st and 3rd". Fair ball in FED! Sure hope I never see a batted ball do that on a high school field! 

[DVA7130]

I don't like most any part of FED.

[bam]

Wait.  What?  Rule reference?

[Richvee]

Wait.  What?  Rule reference?

FED.

 

ART. 1 . . . A fair ball is a batted ball which:

.......

b. contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base; 

[hbk314]

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first

base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to

the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first

falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair ter-

ritory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes

out of the playing field in flight.

 

Sounds like the play you describe was close, but foul. Definitely fair in FED though. Am I interpreting that correctly? I'm imagining "beyond first base" to mean beyond the imaginary line between first and second.

[Richvee]

 

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first

base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to

the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first

falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair ter-

ritory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes

out of the playing field in flight.

 

Sounds like the play you describe was close, but foul. Definitely fair in FED though. Am I interpreting that correctly? I'm imagining "beyond first base" to mean beyond the imaginary line between first and second.

 

Yep. You have it right. Ball landed about a foot to the left of the cutout (towards 2nd base) right on the grass/dirt line. So it wasn't past a line drown from 1st to 2nd, but it was past a line drawn from 1st to 3rd. Just an odd play that got me thinking about the OBR/FED difference. 

[Dean]

OK (for FED)- So now who makes the fair/foul call on this batted ball?   By mechanics.  Sounds like it didn't break the plane of first base, and home plate has the best angle?

 

Better add this to my pregame

[woodiemiller]

Pretty sure that's a TYPO. Never heard that before ever!

[Richvee]

Pretty sure that's a TYPO. Never heard that before ever!

no typos that i see in this thread (other than drown should say drawn in post 6). What have you never heard of? 

[woodiemiller]

About federation having such a "goofy" rule that says drawing an imaginary line between 3rd & 1st to determine a fair ball.

[Richvee]

About federation having such a "goofy" rule that says drawing an imaginary line between 3rd & 1st to determine a fair ball.

No typo.  That's their rule. Cut and pasted. Surprised if you do any FED you never heard of/read this before

[Magic]

About federation having such a "goofy" rule that says drawing an imaginary line between 3rd & 1st to determine a fair ball.

No typo. That's their rule. Cut and pasted. Surprised if you do any FED you never heard of/read this before

Yep. Thank god I have never had that happen in a Fed game.

[Jimurray]

About federation having such a "goofy" rule that says drawing an imaginary line between 3rd & 1st to determine a fair ball.

No typo.  That's their rule. Cut and pasted. Surprised if you do any FED you never heard of/read this before

I wish it was a typo. No surprise you haven't heard of this. I don't focus on it in training new umpires but I do mention it and give my philosophy about calling it that way. If it was a typo this ruling would not exist:

2003

SITUATION 13: The batter hits a hard, low line drive that hits the front edge of the pitching plate, and without touching any defensive player, rebounds back towards home, hitting the batter who is still in the batter's box. RULING: This is a foul ball. To be fair, the ball must either contact a player on or over fair ground or contact fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third bases. (2-5-1b, f)

[Dean]

So how many are in the habit of pointing balls hit in that area fair (after crossing that imaginary line, that just sounds so third world)? (I am not)

[Richvee]

So how many are in the habit of pointing balls hit in that area fair (after crossing that imaginary line, that just sounds so third world)? (I am not)

That's a good point. Had something like this happened in a FED game, I could see PU standing there pointing fair while the BR comes back to the box and the fielder pick up the ball and toss it back to F1..everyone assuming it's foul. Wonder how long a PU could stand there pointing fair before anyone notices.