Missed base while retreating.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

One of the newer guys in my ass'n told me about this recent play, and asked if he handled it OK.  I can't seem to find anything directly 'on point' so I thought I'd toss it out here for help.

 

OBR.

1 out, runner on 1st...and he's running on the pitch.

Batter hits high fly ball, fairly deep to RC.

R1 is past 2nd, half way to 3rd before he realizes he's in deep do-do.

F8 makes nice running catch.

R1 runs STRAIGHT back to 1st, never went anywhere near 2nd.

F4 bobbles relay from F8, allowing R1 to beat throw.

 

We ALL know his return to 1st wasn't legal since he didn't touch 2nd on his way back.

 

Q: What must defense do to make the appeal? 

 

Does F3 having possession of the ball on 1st base while R1 is there enough?

Does F3 have to actually tag him?

Is just tagging him enough, or must the defense announce the reason for the tag?

 

If I were F3, I'd tag him while saying to ump "he didn't retouch 2nd", but that's not what happened.  Instead F3 threw ball to F6 who stepped on 2nd and made the appeal there.

 

[maven]

He missed 2B on the last time by. They can appeal the missed base in the standard ways, tagging the runner or the missed base.

 

If they tag the runner, I'll need to know why before granting the appeal.

 

He also failed to retouch, which is what the throw to 1B is intended to appeal. The two appeals are distinct, and even if he gets back to 1B before the ball (which would warrant denying the retouch appeal), he's still liable to be called out if they appeal the missed base.

 

I think the missed base appeal at 2B would be rare in youth baseball.

[JaxRolo]

Last time by was highly emphasized in FED 2-3 years ago

[maven]

Last time by was highly emphasized in FED 2-3 years ago

 

... after it was added as an "official" interpretation.

[noumpere]

 

 

 

Q: What must defense do to make the appeal? 

 

Does F3 having possession of the ball on 1st base while R1 is there enough?

Does F3 have to actually tag him?

Is just tagging him enough, or must the defense announce the reason for the tag?

 

 

The answers are the same as they are for any appeal.

 

Tag the runner or the base missed / left early (not a different base), and it must be "obvious" (it does NOT need to be spoken, but that is one way to make it obvious).

 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Guys, I DO understand the "last time by", and remember quite well the FED point-of-emphasis from a couple years ago. 

 

The rookie who had to make this call knew the runner hadn't retouched 2nd, and was tempted to ring up the out as soon as F3 had the ball while BOTH he and the runner were in contact with 1st base....the DC and bench were all yelling "he didn't retouch 2nd".  Then he thought "no, I better wait".  F3 (apparently) either didn't know the runner didn't retouch, or didn't understand that he needed to, so he stepped off the base (without tagging runner) took a long, confused look at his coach in the 3rd base dugout, then threw to F6.  F6 stepped on the bag and said "he didn't touch 2nd on his way back" and umpire rung up the out...all correct.

 

Rookie's question is: could he/should he have rung up the out earlier?  I don't think so, I think he did it just fine.

[Magic]

Nope he was fine. Like Maven said, if they don't communicate to me at 1st what they are appealing, I am giving the safe sign(as long as he beats the throw back to 1st). Now if after he tags him and I safe him, and the fielder looks at me and says "He missed 2nd." I will say yes he did and call him out.

[maven]

Guys, I DO understand the "last time by", and remember quite well the FED point-of-emphasis from a couple years ago. 

 

The rookie who had to make this call knew the runner hadn't retouched 2nd, ...

 

Careful here: let's use proper umpire-speak. R1 is not required to retouch 2B on a caught fly, he's required to retouch 1B. Retouch = "tag up."

 

He missed 2B (on the last time by), and if appealed it's a missed base appeal.

 

The difference could be important, though it isn't in this play: if a missed base appeal is a force play, no runs can score. A retouch appeal is NEVER a force play, so always a time play with runners crossing the plate.

 

Regarding the rookie's question: I hope you turned it back to him. The issue is not really when to "ring up the out," but rather when to rule on an appeal. We rule on appeals when they are properly constituted. F3 standing around holding the ball is not a valid appeal. Sounds as if he didn't have one till they tagged 2B. How could he possibly have ruled earlier?

[noumpere]

 

 

Rookie's question is: could he/should he have rung up the out earlier?  I don't think so, I think he did it just fine.

Sometimes rookies (and too often veterans) get too caught up in the unusualness of a play that they forget the basics.

 

IF the play had been "R1 advances to third on a hit but misses second.  F5 holds the ball on third.  Is this a valid appeal? " the answer would be (I hope) obvious.

 

Same answer in the OP.