Crowd control

[Guest Cleveland Coach]

Happened at a tourney two years ago and has always left me worried if not outright fearful. In a 12U tournament we played against a team known for large numbers of "vocal fans" which took their place along the third base line and behind the left field fence.  A two person umpire crew per usual. The fans would yell "Miss it! Miss it!" at our left fielder.  They would also heckle our 3rd baseman during between inning warm ups, telling him how weak an arm he had, that he didn't now how to play, etc. With the game on the line in the late innings, it was clear our left fielder was visibly upset out in the field by something, but the next play resulted in the third out. When he came in he told me fans in the outfield had called him the "n-word." 

 

We took it up with the ump who said since he didn't hear it there was nothing he could do. Our head coach asked if he could at least go out and talk the fans there and issue a general type warning as we had a kid in our dugout who was truly afraid to play. The ump refused.  We asked the opposing coach if he could address the crowd. He refused saying it was part of the game and our fielder needed to toughen up. Thankfully we scored three runs in the the inning. When we took the field for the last inning we simply  switched our left and right fielder, putting the scared youngster in friendly ground. We also sent several of our fans to the right field fence as the other teams fans were actually getting up to follow the young outfielder. They saw the move and stopped and went back to their left field seats where they gave the new left fielder a lot of grief, but he was a tough kid who ignored it. Fittingly, the game ended with him catching a fly ball in our 5-3 win. The umps left quickly, and the opposing fans yelled obscenities at our kids who would not come out of the dugout until the other team and fans vacated.

 

What could, or should an umpire do in that type of situation?

[UmpJM]

Halt the game and have someone go get the Tournament Director to get rid of the a$$holes.

 

JM

[Replacematt]

Halt the game and have someone go get the Tournament Director to get rid of the a$$holes.

 

JM

 

I'm going to slightly disagree.

 

If I don't hear anything, I'm not halting the game. If a coach came to me with an issue like this, I would encourage their staff to get the TD or site manager, because that means that I didn't hear it. The reality is that any competent umpire will address the issue with the site management immediately upon witnessing anything that would warrant it. I hear someone use a racial slur? You aren't going to have to ask me to do anything--I'm already on it. Also remember that we don't engage spectators directly--we have no authority to do so and it's a danger to us.

[blue23ll]

I agree, halt the game and get field management involved. What is the down side of halting the game? This is a 12U youth game, not a HS Varsity or higher game.

[Replacematt]

I agree, halt the game and get field management involved. What is the down side of halting the game? This is a 12U youth game, not a HS Varsity or higher game.

 

Because if it's a misunderstanding or mistake, it unnecessarily escalates the situation. If he's coming to you, there's no harm in telling him to send someone to go get Jim to handle it, since there's no need for you to get involved.

[blue23ll]

 

I agree, halt the game and get field management involved. What is the down side of halting the game? This is a 12U youth game, not a HS Varsity or higher game.

 

Because if it's a misunderstanding or mistake, it unnecessarily escalates the situation. If he's coming to you, there's no harm in telling him to send someone to go get Jim to handle it, since there's no need for you to get involved.

 

I disagree, how does it escalate the situation if you talk to Jim, vs the manager? To me, its about game management, ultimately its the managers responsibility to control their fans. I had a situation in a LL Majors tourney game where one of the wacko neighbors decided to wander out to the ball field. He proceeded to stand behind the outfield fence and comment on the players. He was unknown to both teams, yet he was harassing the players.  A quick time out, and discussion with the TD, situation resolved. All totaled, about 3 minutes of delay, nobody is harmed, and we have prevented a possible ugly situation.

[BalkHawk]

I'm sprinting to left field, spit dribbling as I yell something incomprehensible about Jackie Robinson. When I get there I'll challenge the whole f'n 5th grade to a fight. Everyone in eyesight gets ejected and then I make sure they know they're no damn good.

This is not the correct answer. So what, say I won't.

[BalkHawk]

...he didn't now how to play...

Now how, brown cow?

[Jocko]

I agree with Matt. Unsubstantiated allegations don't get me involved. Directly. Get the tournament director.

I think your upset kid's dad should have immediately gotten involved. I know if it were my kid I would. And your HC should have advised SEVERAL of the largest men in his stands to station themselves amongst the offenders. Bullies are easily cowed by any show of force. (Personal advice. Not as an umpire, but a guy who won't tolerate this horseSH*#)

This behavior is unconscionable. But, if I don't hear it, I can't do anything about it. If I believe this activity to be actually happening, I may take it upon myself as a man of honor to have a discussion with the 'offending' team's HC. Man to man. Not ump to HC. And depending on his response, I may halt the game (if he admits it is happening) and get involved (now stepping back into the role of umpire). If he indicates to me that yes, theyre giving the kid a hard time, I will DEFINITELY address it.

At the minimum, I'm gonna send someone for the TD. This is a saftey issue, as it could possibly lead to a brawl.

YOUTH SPORTS WOULD BE BETTER IF THE GAMES WERE PLAYED BY ORPHANS

My question to YOU is.....why didn't YOU do something about it?

[Replacematt]

 

 

I agree, halt the game and get field management involved. What is the down side of halting the game? This is a 12U youth game, not a HS Varsity or higher game.

 

Because if it's a misunderstanding or mistake, it unnecessarily escalates the situation. If he's coming to you, there's no harm in telling him to send someone to go get Jim to handle it, since there's no need for you to get involved.

 

I disagree, how does it escalate the situation if you talk to Jim, vs the manager? To me, its about game management, ultimately its the managers responsibility to control their fans. I had a situation in a LL Majors tourney game where one of the wacko neighbors decided to wander out to the ball field. He proceeded to stand behind the outfield fence and comment on the players. He was unknown to both teams, yet he was harassing the players.  A quick time out, and discussion with the TD, situation resolved. All totaled, about 3 minutes of delay, nobody is harmed, and we have prevented a possible ugly situation.

 

 

You're dealing with a potentially volatile situation. Handle it as discreetly as possible. Once you halt the game, that tells everyone something's wrong and people start to get worked up. It's crowd control basics--do not do anything unexpected unnecessarily.

[LRZ]

I find it hard to believe that neither umpire heard the yelling. Unless they were intentionally deaf.

[Replacematt]

I find it hard to believe that neither umpire heard the yelling. Unless they were intentionally deaf.

 

I can believe it.

[Guest Guest]

We did do something: 

 

1) We told the umpire who we felt was responsible for game management

2) We asked the other team's head coach to address his fans

3) We put the upset kid in friendly ground and surrounded him with parents so the so-called "fans" couldn't get to him again...what we didn't want to do was take him off the field and let the jerks in the outfield think they could take a player out of the game by their actions

4) Refused to take part in postgame handshakes or mutual trophy presentation

5) We have never returned to that tournament, nor has any team with ties to our city returned to that tournament

6) Our coaching staff did later call the league director of the other team (the two teams involved play in different leagues) and let him know of the event. We do not know if there was any action ever taken.

— I'm very proud of our team and parents for not trying to return the favor by giving their players similar treatment, although there were those that wanted to. There were others that insisted our pitcher "buzz the tower" and send a message. Again we would not allow that. I'm very proud of our parents for just staying close to our dugout after the game and not interacting and escalating the situation. It was not easy for them.

— The next move, we decided in the dugout, was if the "fans" had come in numbers to right field to continue the taunting (and honestly we could not have stopped them with the number of fans we had there) was to pull our team off the field, call the police,  and tell the umpires we would not play unless our players' safety was assured.

— Our coaches, including me, were set on not allowing this to become 6 p.m. news story.

[Mike Prince]

I find it hard to believe that neither umpire heard the yelling. Unless they were intentionally deaf.

I guess it's where you draw the line.  The OP implies that no one but F9 heard the racial slur directed at him.  So before the umpire was informed of that all he may have heard was chatter - this is a HTBT situation.  Not to twist things (or imply that they have been), but the OP is from the coach or a fan of the opposing team, so the story is from his perspective, not that of an impartial party (like an umpire).  So there is some emotion and natural bias here.

 

Having said that, if I heard overtly unsportsmanlike fan behavior in a youth tournament (especially directed toward a participant) at a minimum, I am calling for the TD and calling time to facilitate a discussion between him and both coaches. Once the racial slur is brought to my attention, I will call for the TD again if he has left and get involved directly while he is on his way.

 

And one note to the OP - the umpires left quickly when the game was over because their officiating responsibilities were over.  That is standard operating procedure and likely has nothing to do with this situation.

 

This sort of behavior is reprehensible.  It's sad to think that a young athlete is still subject to this type of treatment, and by a parent of a kid the same age no less.

[noumpere]

We did do something: 

 

1) We told the umpire who we felt was responsible for game management

2) We asked the other team's head coach to address his fans

3) We put the upset kid in friendly ground and surrounded him with parents so the so-called "fans" couldn't get to him again...what we didn't want to do was take him off the field and let the jerks in the outfield think they could take a player out of the game by their actions

4) Refused to take part in postgame handshakes or mutual trophy presentation

5) We have never returned to that tournament, nor has any team with ties to our city returned to that tournament

6) Our coaching staff did later call the league director of the other team (the two teams involved play in different leagues) and let him know of the event. We do not know if there was any action ever taken.

— I'm very proud of our team and parents for not trying to return the favor by giving their players similar treatment, although there were those that wanted to. There were others that insisted our pitcher "buzz the tower" and send a message. Again we would not allow that. I'm very proud of our parents for just staying close to our dugout after the game and not interacting and escalating the situation. It was not easy for them.

— The next move, we decided in the dugout, was if the "fans" had come in numbers to right field to continue the taunting (and honestly we could not have stopped them with the number of fans we had there) was to pull our team off the field, call the police,  and tell the umpires we would not play unless our players' safety was assured.

— Our coaches, including me, were set on not allowing this to become 6 p.m. news story.

I think you were wrong with numbers 1 and 4.

 

Some tournaments make controlling the fans the coaches job, some don't.

 

I agree with those who have the coach get the TD involved and I'm willing to delay the game a little while the coach is talking to the TD, but I'm not stopping the game until I find the TD.

[LRZ]

I read the tone of this account as fairly reasonably stated, not over the top at all. Granted, there could be bias, but I would not even begin to read that in unless I saw some evidence to support it.

 

As for the derisive remarks directed to the 3d baseman, that was between innings, when the plate umpire would likely be standing along either foul line, presumably observing, even casually.

 

I don't fault the OPoster or parents for #1 and 4, especially in the heat of the moment. As some of us have responded (the question is what could an umpire do), have the umpire get the TD involved and have him/her deal with the situation.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

I agree, halt the game and get field management involved. What is the down side of halting the game? This is a 12U youth game, not a HS Varsity or higher game.

 

Because if it's a misunderstanding or mistake, it unnecessarily escalates the situation. If he's coming to you, there's no harm in telling him to send someone to go get Jim to handle it, since there's no need for you to get involved.

 

, ultimately its the managers responsibility to control their fans.

 

 

Wrong.

 

In LL it is in writing that it is NOT a manager responsibility.  “The Right Call†Casebook -- Comment: Managers are not responsible for the actions of the spectators. You cannot forfeit a game because of spectator actions.

 

It is the site management's responsibility.  Per LL rule 9.01(f ) you can halt the game and send the players to the dugout until the situation is fixed by site management.

[Jocko]

I disagree. You didn't DO anything but a defensive player switch. And subjected another kid to this garbage. You were reactive. Be proactive.

As a father and former coach, I would PERSONALLY have put a stop to it. You put the onus on the umpires, who weren't aware there was a problem. Could/should they have handled it differently? Maybe. But, ultimately, you are the one who should have done something about it. If you're the kind of guy that avoids confrontation and is easily intimidated (nothing wrong with that. I personally am not) then call the TD yourself. Or 911 if you honestly feel that the safety of your players is in question.

As for never playing there again....you're punishing the league for an accusation that, to them, there is no evidence of. After the fact. Had you given the TD an opportunity to handle it....different story. But what would you have them do? Allegations with no evidence are just that. He said/she said. Not saying it's not true, but until proven guilty, everyone is innocent.

YMMV and I commend you for not wanting things blown out of proportion. But right is right. Every situation can be handle deftly amd tactfully. But things need to be addressed.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Bourke

[Guest Northcoast coach]

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully we'll never deal with something similar again.