Prepare for 2014: Play 11

[maven]

Since this play is now obviously illegal in OBR, please provide FED rulings for the various plays.

 

SITUATION: R1, R3, 2 outs. F1 comes set, then steps toward 3B and (a) feints to F5 and holds the ball; (b) throws to F5 who is 25 feet from R3; (c ) throws to F5, but the ball goes over F5's head. R3 advances, F7 catches the throw from F1 and throws out R3 at the plate; (d) feints to F5, the ball slips out of his hand, and it lands 20 feet in front of F5 and rolls to him; (e) feints to F5, the ball slips out of his hand, lands just beyond the mound and rolls 20 feet away from F1.

 

RULING: ??

[JaxRolo]

(a) Legal

 

(b) Legal

 

© Legal

 

(d) Legal

 

(e) Legal

(e) is not very clear.

 

Did he feint to 3rd and try to go to first?

[maven]

(e) Legal

(e) is not very clear.

 

Did he feint to 3rd and try to go to first?

 

No, just feinted with his arm and the ball came out.

[JaxRolo]

 

(e) Legal

(e) is not very clear.

 

Did he feint to 3rd and try to go to first?

 

No, just feinted with his arm and the ball came out.

 

Still legal IMHO

[tldavis19]

Is it not a balk when he drops it, but it doesn't cross any foul lines? or does that not apply to pickoff moves?

[JaxRolo]

Is it not a balk when he drops it, but it doesn't cross any foul lines? or does that not apply to pickoff moves?

No because he already feinted. So not a drop from the rubber.

[noumpere]

I agree with JaxRolo -- so I must have the wrong answer.

[tldavis19]

 

Is it not a balk when he drops it, but it doesn't cross any foul lines? or does that not apply to pickoff moves?

No because he already feinted. So not a drop from the rubber.

 

very good then, Rolo for the win.

[grayhawk]

Agree that all are legal.  Let's add one with the same setup:

 

(f) F1 steps with his free foot towards third and fakes a throw.  Without ever disengaging with his pivot foot, F1 then reverses his course and steps and throws to first.

[maven]

Agree that all are legal.  Let's add one with the same setup:

 

(f) F1 steps with his free foot towards third and fakes a throw.  Without ever disengaging with his pivot foot, F1 then reverses his course and steps and throws to first.

 

Hey, buddy, take your can o' worms and get your own thread!

 

Also, that's a trick question. You didn't see his pivot foot come off the rubber for half a second? I know I did!

[grayhawk]

 

Agree that all are legal.  Let's add one with the same setup:

 

(f) F1 steps with his free foot towards third and fakes a throw.  Without ever disengaging with his pivot foot, F1 then reverses his course and steps and throws to first.

 

Hey, buddy, take your can o' worms and get your own thread!

 

Also, that's a trick question. You didn't see his pivot foot come off the rubber for half a second? I know I did!

 

 

Nope - he absolutely did not disengage.  Whatcha got?

[maven]

Nope - he absolutely did not disengage.  Whatcha got?

Rule book answer: that's a step balk.

 

Real world answer: oh yes he did step off.

[grayhawk]

 

Nope - he absolutely did not disengage.  Whatcha got?

Rule book answer: that's a step balk.

 

Real world answer: oh yes he did step off.

 

 

Remember, this is a Fed thread...

[maven]

6.2.4 SIT C

[noumpere]

 

Nope - he absolutely did not disengage.  Whatcha got?

Rule book answer: that's a step balk.

 

Real world answer: oh yes he did step off.

 

Incorrect in FED.  As long as he throws to first it's legal.  But if he feints to first and didn't disengage beforehand or as apart of the move to third, now its a balk.

[ricka56]

6.2.4 SIT C

And 6.1.5 also says no balk. I have never seen a feint to 3B without a disengagement before a throw/feint to 1B. If I ever do see a no disengagement feint to 3B, I hope it is not in a Fed game because I will probably not remember this interp and incorrectly balk it. This Fed interp makes no sense to me.

[ALStripes17]

That's the point. Grayhawk explained that the pitcher never disengaged on the feint to 3B before turning to go to 1B.

Agree with Maven completely.

By rule, it's a balk bc the foot must disengage before turning back to 1B but in real world application, F1 is going to make a balk call easy by how weird it's going to look haha

[JaxRolo]

 

6.2.4 SIT C

And 6.1.5 also says no balk. I have never seen a feint to 3B without a disengagement before a throw/feint to 1B. If I ever do see a no disengagement feint to 3B, I hope it is not in a Fed game because I will probably not remember this interp and incorrectly balk it. This Fed interp makes no sense to me.

 

If you balk it the coaches probably won't know any better anyways.

[ricka56]

 

 

6.2.4 SIT C

And 6.1.5 also says no balk. I have never seen a feint to 3B without a disengagement before a throw/feint to 1B. If I ever do see a no disengagement feint to 3B, I hope it is not in a Fed game because I will probably not remember this interp and incorrectly balk it. This Fed interp makes no sense to me.

If you balk it the coaches probably won't know any better anyways.

 

This is just a rules gotcha topic. I don't know anyone who has seen it happen, let alone officiate it correctly.

[grayhawk]

That's the point. Grayhawk explained that the pitcher never disengaged on the feint to 3B before turning to go to 1B.

Agree with Maven completely.

By rule, it's a balk bc the foot must disengage before turning back to 1B but in real world application, F1 is going to make a balk call easy by how weird it's going to look haha

 

In Fed, the pitcher is not required to disengage on the third to first move.  Will any of us ever see it?  Probably not, but it IS legal.

[noumpere]

By rule, it's a balk bc the foot must disengage before turning back to 1B but in real world application, F1 is going to make a balk call easy by how weird it's going to look haha

 

If your still talking FED you have that backwards.

 

and, yes, I have seen it.

[ALStripes17]

Awesome! Thanks Grayhawk. I have learned something today.

Noumpere, what did I have backwards? I was misinformed in thinking a pitcher must gain ground towards 3B AND disengage the rubber before being able to turn back to 1B.

I would still like to see how a pitcher could feint to 3B without removing his pivot foot and turn back to 1B. Would look very odd and/or uncomfortable

[maven]

I know that I'll never see it.

[noumpere]

Awesome! Thanks Grayhawk. I have learned something today.

Noumpere, what did I have backwards? I was misinformed in thinking a pitcher must gain ground towards 3B AND disengage the rubber before being able to turn back to 1B.

I would still like to see how a pitcher could feint to 3B without removing his pivot foot and turn back to 1B. Would look very odd and/or uncomfortable

You said "it's a balk bc the foot must disengage before turning back to 1B" and that is clearly NOT true in FED.

 

Stand up in your living room and step with your left foot forward then with your left foot backward pivoting on your right foot.  Not really that hard.  Basketball players do a similar move frequently.