Fair or foul?

[bluejerred]

Stupid question.  High chopper towards third.  Ball initially touches fair but goes foul in the air and is played by the third baseman before touching the ground in foul territory. Fair or foul?

[Mr Umpire]

Did it cross over any part of the base in the air or go beyond the base in fair territory before going into foul territory?  If so, fair ball.  If not, foul ball.

[Dannytheman]

Obviously depends where the ball is over the bag, or not over the bag, if in foul territory.

In 2 man, it's PUs call. Coaches need to teach to have kids play all the way through and let ruling being secondary. 

[Texas Manny]

Doesn't matter where the fielder is. It is where the ball is at point of contact. By your description, foul ball, since you said the ball went foul in the air. Now if the ball was beyond the 1st, or 3rd base bags, and the ball was fair at that point, it is a fair ball, and play it.

 

PU has fair/foul up to the bag on 1st base line, all the way down the 3rd base line. BU has fair/foul from bag back when on the 1st base line. This of course applies to two man system. With three man, any base umpire on their respective line has from the bag back.

[Larry in TN]

Did the ball touch any of the three bases (1st, 2nd, or 3rd)?  If so, FAIR

 

Was the ball touched by a fielder before it reached 1st or 3rd base?  If so, the ball is FAIR if touched in fair territory or FOUL if touched in foul territory.

 

Where was the ball when it passed 1st or 3rd base untouched, FAIR or FOUL?  If it was on, or over, FAIR territory (including the base and foul-line) as it passed the base then it is FAIR.  If it was on, or over, FOUL territory then it is FOUL.

 

 

This reminds me of a question I've had about fair/four umpire mechanics...  I've seen MLB umpires pointing to foul territory when a foul-fly ball is caught in flight, i.e. a foul-out.  What is the significance of the "foul" mechanic on a foul-out?  Whether fair or foul, the BR is out on the legal catch and the ball is live so what is the point of the pointing foul mechanic when the ball is caught?

[Texas Manny]

This reminds me of a question I've had about fair/four umpire mechanics...  I've seen MLB umpires pointing to foul territory when a foul-fly ball is caught in flight, i.e. a foul-out.  What is the significance of the "foul" mechanic on a foul-out?  Whether fair or foul, the BR is out on the legal catch and the ball is live so what is the point of the pointing foul mechanic when the ball is caught?

In umpire school, you are taught to make the fair/foul determination first, then signal an out, and say "He's out!" or "That's a catch!" or "That's a catch, he's out!"

 

As you get into the pros, if it is routine in nature, then you ditch the out call and just signal fair or foul as the case may be. The more dramatic the catch is, then the out mechanic comes into play. For really spectacular catches, you will point fair or foul one or two times emphatically, and pump it with your fist, shouting "That's a catch! That's a catch! He's out!"

 

If there are runners on base, you always signal with fair/foul, and the out mechanic.

 

Sometimes it's about subtlty. Sometimes its about emphaticalism.

[umpstu]

Did the ball touch any of the three bases (1st, 2nd, or 3rd)?  If so, FAIR

 

Was the ball touched by a fielder before it reached 1st or 3rd base?  If so, the ball is FAIR if touched in fair territory or FOUL if touched in foul territory.

 

Where was the ball when it passed 1st or 3rd base untouched, FAIR or FOUL?  If it was on, or over, FAIR territory (including the base and foul-line) as it passed the base then it is FAIR.  If it was on, or over, FOUL territory then it is FOUL.

 

 

This reminds me of a question I've had about fair/four umpire mechanics...  I've seen MLB umpires pointing to foul territory when a foul-fly ball is caught in flight, i.e. a foul-out.  What is the significance of the "foul" mechanic on a foul-out?  Whether fair or foul, the BR is out on the legal catch and the ball is live so what is the point of the pointing foul mechanic when the ball is caught?

You're first call in that situation is always fair/foul and the safe or out. It let's all know if the ball will be live if he muffs the catch. If he touches it in fair territory near the line and subsequently drops the ball it is a fair ball and in play. If he touches it on the foul side of the line first and drops it, it is a foul ball and dead.

[Larry in TN]

Okay, so the foul mechanic is only important if a legal catch is not made.  Once the catch is completed the mechanic becomes moot?  That makes sense.

[Texas Manny]

Okay, so the foul mechanic is only important if a legal catch is not made.  Once the catch is completed the mechanic becomes moot?  That makes sense.

No. Fair/foul is always made. It's the out call that isn't always made because of the routine level of the play. The tougher the catch, then the out call comes into play. Always determine fair or foul.

[Jocko]

Back to the OP.....

The above answers that were directly about the ball being fair/foul are correct.

Forgive me, I don't have my OBR handy, but from NFHS

2-16-1 a-e "A foul is a batted ball:

Which settles on foul territory between home and 1B or home and 3b; or

★★★That bounds past 1B or 3B on or over foul territory; or

That first falls on foul territory beyond 1B or 3B; or

That, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or any object foreign to the natural ground; or

That touches the ground after inadvertently being declared foul by an umpire."

So, we can deduce that a batted ball that doesn't meet these criteria is a fair batted ball.

The part that will be most applicable to the OP is starred. If the ball bounds past 1B or 3B on OR OVER fair territory, the ball is fair.

[BigSimonia]

 

This reminds me of a question I've had about fair/four umpire mechanics...  I've seen MLB umpires pointing to foul territory when a foul-fly ball is caught in flight, i.e. a foul-out.  What is the significance of the "foul" mechanic on a foul-out?  Whether fair or foul, the BR is out on the legal catch and the ball is live so what is the point of the pointing foul mechanic when the ball is caught?

In umpire school, you are taught to make the fair/foul determination first, then signal an out, and say "He's out!" or "That's a catch!" or "That's a catch, he's out!"

 

As you get into the pros, if it is routine in nature, then you ditch the out call and just signal fair or foul as the case may be. The more dramatic the catch is, then the out mechanic comes into play. For really spectacular catches, you will point fair or foul one or two times emphatically, and pump it with your fist, shouting "That's a catch! That's a catch! He's out!"

 

If there are runners on base, you always signal with fair/foul, and the out mechanic.

 

Sometimes it's about subtlty. Sometimes its about emphaticalism.

 

"emphaticalism" - Now THAT's a great word - perfectly understandable, fun to say, and absolutely original.  I gotta find a situation to use it