Entitled to base...

[ohlradio]

Interesting play in tonight's Yankees/Blue Jays game. R1/R3, 1 out.

 

Ground ball to the infield, throw home. R3 gets in a rundown. R1 continues running and is standing on third base.

 

3rd baseman gets the ball and tries to tag R3 diving back into third base and misses him. Umpire signals safe on the missed tag. R3 puts his hand on the bag for a moment, but then while off the bag, R1 is tagged, called out. Then R3 is tagged and called out because he is off the bag.

 

I'm wondering if the umpire thought two runners were occupying the base at the same time when he called R1 out, because at no time were the runners tagged with both occupying the base.

[Jocko]

Were they both off the base whem tagged? Seems eerily similar to a play several years ago.

[ohlradio]

Were they both off the base whem tagged? Seems eerily similar to a play several years ago.

 

No, R1 never left the base once he touched it. He was tagged while standing on the bag.

[JaxRolo]

As described he got it wrong. But maybe he saw something we didn't see.

[Jocko]

. With R3 in jeopardy and R1 on the bag, R1 would be safe when tagged. So long as R3 was not touching 3rd. Noone is out yet. If this is how it went down, then the umpire kicked it.

[ohlradio]

This raises a good topic of discussion. With R3 in jeopardy and R1 on the bag, R1 would be safe when tagged. So long as R3 was not touching 3rd. Noone is out yet. If this is how it went down, then the umpire kicked it.

 

Hopefully MLB.com posts the video later as one of their oddity-type plays.

[Jocko]

thunder....Thunder....THUNDERHEADS!! HO!!!!!!!!!!!

[ohlradio]

After I started this thread, former catcher Gregg Zaun showed it between innings and he agreed with my interpretation of it. That the umpire thought R3 was still touching the bag when R1 was touched - hence he called R1 out, then saw R3 tagged while off the bag and called him out too.

[ohlradio]

Check it out for yourself:

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=30759829

 

(wanted to post the link not have a window try and open up....)

[afaber12]

I want say that it was "as busy as Pitt Street" there at 3rd, but I doubt anyone outside of Sydney, let alone outside of Australia would get that. There were lots of people all around the base: F2, F5, F6, R1, R3, C3, and U3.

 

Its gotta be that he thought R3 was on the bag when R1 was tagged. Dan Iassogna was on the move unfortunately when that tag was applied, but he had to be to try and avoid looking through people at the play.

[ohlradio]

Its gotta be that he thought R3 was on the bag when R1 was tagged. Dan Iassogna was on the move unfortunately when that tag was applied, but he had to be to try and avoid looking through people at the play.

 

Agreed, that's how I think it played out as well. The Blue Jays broadcasters were trying to use 7.01 to say that Reyes was still entitled to the base and that's why Lawrie was out when tagged.

[afaber12]

 

Its gotta be that he thought R3 was on the bag when R1 was tagged. Dan Iassogna was on the move unfortunately when that tag was applied, but he had to be to try and avoid looking through people at the play.

 

Agreed, that's how I think it played out as well. The Blue Jays broadcasters were trying to use 7.01 to say that Reyes was still entitled to the base and that's why Lawrie was out when tagged.

 

There was a discussion a while back about a similar play where both runners were on the base, both got tagged, and R1 was called out and R3 safe. Someone suggested that under that rule if R3 was off the base, then R1 was in peril and out if tagged while on the base. They then retracted that after describing a situation where R3 is in an ongoing rundown between 3rd and home, R1 standing on 3rd, and the fielders throw and tag R1 while R3 is half way or further down the line.

 

I think it'd be a creative interpretation of the rules to give a call on that basis.

[Jimurray]

Its gotta be that he thought R3 was on the bag when R1 was tagged. Dan Iassogna was on the move unfortunately when that tag was applied, but he had to be to try and avoid looking through people at the play.

 

Agreed, that's how I think it played out as well. The Blue Jays broadcasters were trying to use 7.01 to say that Reyes was still entitled to the base and that's why Lawrie was out when tagged.

There was a discussion a while back about a similar play where both runners were on the base, both got tagged, and R1 was called out and R3 safe. Someone suggested that under that rule if R3 was off the base, then R1 was in peril and out if tagged while on the base. They then retracted that after describing a situation where R3 is in an ongoing rundown between 3rd and home, R1 standing on 3rd, and the fielders throw and tag R1 while R3 is half way or further down the line.

 

I think it'd be a creative interpretation of the rules to give a call on that basis.

There are people that creative: http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/55019-run-down-rules-involved/

Might be worthwhile to merge the topic if that's possible.

[Specks]

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

[Jocko]

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

wrong

[JaxRolo]

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

Wow! Can you please cite this rule???

[blue23ll]

In looking at the video, it looked to me like R1 was tagged twice, once while R3 was on the base and again after he was off. Did anyone else see this?

[Jimurray]

In looking at the video, it looked to me like R1 was tagged twice, once while R3 was on the base and again after he was off. Did anyone else see this?

 

I thought I saw the same thing. A glove brushed his leg as R3 contacted the bag. But I think it was the other fielder's glove.

[afaber12]

In looking at the video, it looked to me like R1 was tagged twice, once while R3 was on the base and again after he was off. Did anyone else see this?

 

As far as I can tell, this is the first tag made on the play.

 

 

The safe signal is for the attempted tag on R3 diving back to the bag which was missed. R3 is not on the base as the tag of R1 is being made. I think the what might have created the idea in Iassogna's mind that R3 was on the base was just after this tag is applied, and just before the tag on R3, R3 lifts his left hand up and away from where it is here, though here it looks to be at least a hand's length away from the base. Iassogna is trying to get around R1 from here - though it turns out he may well have been better off staying where he is in the screen cap, as he's likely able to see R3's hand through R1's legs, and neither runner does anything to try and avoid a tag.

 

Between having an obstructed view of what was happening, trying to fix that situation by moving as the play was happening, and R3's movement being similar to that of someone touching the base and then coming off it, all combined to give Iassogna the impression that both were on the base for this tag, then R3 being off for the tag on him.

[noumpere]

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

I'm not sure in what game that would be true, but it isnt baseball.

[BigSimonia]

In looking at the video, it looked to me like R1 was tagged twice, once while R3 was on the base and again after he was off. Did anyone else see this?

No

[Specks]

 

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

wrong

 

What part?

I saw the play on a phone, I thought R3 was touching the bag.

[Jocko]

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

wrong

What part?I saw the play on a phone, I thought R3 was touching the bag.

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base.

This part. Unless both are touching the base, R1 is safe.

[Specks]

 

 

 

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base. R1 was tagged first so he's out. R3 then, no longer touched the base and was then tagged out for a double play. The umpire got it correct. Even if both are on 3rd at the same time only one (R3) is protected, the other (R1) is at risk.

wrong What part?I saw the play on a phone, I thought R3 was touching the bag.

Until R3 touches home he is entitled to 3rd base. R1 is at risk of being put out reguardless of the fact his is touching 3rd base.

This part. Unless both are touching the base, R1 is safe.

 

R3 is entitled to return to 3rd and safely occupy the bag until he touches a following base. In my original post I thought R3 was touching the bag with his hand which would make him the legal occupier (is that a word?) of the base and R1 at risk. R1 then tagged would be out, R3 rolls off and tagged, out. Seeing it on a bigger screen, don't know if R3 was on the base when R1 was tagged. R1 is protected on 3rd as long as R3 is not on the base. With both on the base at the same time R1 is at risk.

[JaxRolo]

Guys if you are wrong don't make up excuses and lies. Just admit it and move on!