What do you guys think?

[Matt_A_B]

I know I've read on here several times that you "don't regret the ejections you get", but I've always wondered if this one from a couple of years ago was a little quick. I thought it was a no-brainer at the time, but guys I've told the story to act like I shouldn't have ejected. So, I thought I'd seek the group perspective.

It was the end of the year state tournement for 15/16 VFW ball. I was base umpire, in B position, with a runner on first, no outs. Slow ground ball hit to second baseman, with the only play being at first. I hustle into good position, and call the kid safe on a banger. The defensive team' parents in the stands register their displeasure a bit, but nothing too terrible. As I'm getting back into position I hear the second baseman say "wow, that was terrible." I ignore this, as I figure at that point acknowledging would cause more trouble than anything. Was that a mistake? Then the next play is a lazy fly ball to shallow right. The right fielder catches it for out number one, and and tosses it back into the second baseman, the same guy from the previous play. When he catches it he very loudly annouces "one out, should be two!" I turn to him, tell him he's done and give the sign. I always feel like anytime a kid is ejected it works best to immediately fill the coach in on what I had and why I did it, as this usually cuts off any argument. I jogged over to the head coach, who was coming out of the dugout, told him what was said, and why I ejected. He just nodded in agreement, and then went to the plate ump to give him the substitution. Like I said, I thought it seemed like a pretty fair ejection, but not everyone that has heard about it agreed. So, what's the group consensus?

[LMSANS]

A warning would have been appropriate after the first comment, " That's enough!" EJ is then ready and available. Larry Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[mstaylor]

Warn the first, toss on the second. If you choose to ignore the first, then you almost have to warn on the second. On the other hand you also have to account for the volume and delivery. 

[Magic]

If you would have warned on the 1st, you would have probably avoided the 2nd, and kept the kid in the game. Then again, he might have hung himself anyways. When a coach says something you can ignore, acknowledge, warn, and then toss. With a kid, it is Warn then toss. They don't get the same leash. Unless it is personal, then it is Just BOOM!!! 

[Matt_A_B]

OK, so here's the follow up question: Doesn't warning on something not said to me make me look like the agressor?

[UmpJM]

F4: "Wow, that was terrible!"

 

BU (to F4): "Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. Sure you should have had him, but I've seen a lot of worse plays by 2nd basemen than that."

 

JM

[Specks]

at 15/16u a "wow that's terrible" gets ignored unless he facing/pointing at me. The "should be 2 outs" gets a very stern point and loud enough for coaches to hear "Knock it off". That usually takes care of it.

[Jocko]

Also, I wouldn't "jog over to the head coach." If he wants to talk (for sure here) he's coming to me. I'm not meeting him. Ever. He wants to talk, he gets to walk. YMMV

[mstaylor]

I would have ignored the first comment, gave a very stern, "That's enough" and dumped from there. That's not one to regret, it's one to learn from. As you work through the levels and gain experience you will learn your line and how to maintain guys that approach it.  If they care not to heed your experience, then they gain experience. 

[Jocko]

Exactly. Learn from my experience.....or gain your own. Well said :beerbang

[JaxRolo]

Also, I wouldn't "jog over to the head coach." If he wants to talk (for sure here) he's coming to me. I'm not meeting him. Ever. He wants to talk, he gets to walk. YMMV

I agree never go to a coach. I have made coaches come to me in see right/center.

[UmpJM]

While in principle I agree with Jocko and Jax, sometimes I do it differently, depending on the circumstances.

 

Had a close play at 3B on a slow chopper to short, and the R1 just kept going. They go the out at 1B and then played on the R1 at 3B. Looked like he was going to be out, but the throw was a bit high and the runner got in under the tag. After the play, DHC asks for time and comes calmly jogging out towards me, and I took a few steps in his direction and asked, What's up , Bill?" (Earlier in the game I had ejected his 1B coach for his demonstration following my "out" call on a retouch appeal. During the change, the HC came out and apologized for his assistant's behavior and told me he thought my call was correct.) He asked me where I had the tag, I told him and said he got under the tag, and he said "thanks" and went back to his dugout.

 

JM

[immaculate1976]

Warn and eject and agree don't go to the HC he needs to come to you plus it makes you look like you are trying to justify your ejection

[Specks]

If a manager has a question, he needs to come to me where I am. I love it when a manager from the 3rd base dugout has to walk all the way to "A" to ask something, then walk all the way back. The only time I'll walk toward them is right at the very end I'll walk maybe 6' (2 steps), that way when I say that's enough let's play I can turn and walk back to my original spot. Doesn't look like I'm running away. But they will always do 95% of the traveling. I have had situations where the 3rd base side manager starts towards me in "A" and gives up and goes back.

[Umpiresoftball]

Also, I wouldn't "jog over to the head coach." If he wants to talk (for sure here) he's coming to me. I'm not meeting him. Ever. He wants to talk, he gets to walk. YMMV

Well a couple years ago we were told to meet the coach half way.  that was in a local babe ruth clinc what you guys think?

[mstaylor]

Nope, he wants to talk, he has to walk<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[Jocko]

Also, I wouldn't "jog over to the head coach." If he wants to talk (for sure here) he's coming to me. I'm not meeting him. Ever. He wants to talk, he gets to walk. YMMV

Well a couple years ago we were told to meet the coach half way.  that was in a local babe ruth clinc what you guys think?if that's the way you're instructed to do it for the league in which you work, I say when in Rome ya gotta do as the Romans do. Personally, I'm not doing it. But then again, I don't work softball, Babe Ruth, or anything like it. He's coming to me. Here's a first hand example why...

Last season I had 4 ejs that resulted in a forfeit (posted in ej forum). After the 1st ej (player for mc), HC asks me if a certain player was eligible to enter. I got with my BU (here's when I started insisting on lineups and always keep it on the plate, not my partner anymore). His player wasn't eligible for batting order reasons. I walked to him with the lineup on his dugout side baseline. Then the circus started.

Lessons learned:

Get lineups at the plate, even in tourneys

Don't let your partner keep the card on the bases

Never ever go to him. Make him come to you

[guitarplaya2007]

I agree with everyone else as far as warning/ ignoring the first comment and then ejecting/warning (depending on what you did with the first comment) on the second comment. As far as meeting the manager halfway, my opinion is to meet the manager somewhere between his position and your position, but don't jog, just walk casually. When you jog it looks like you may be looking for a confrontation. But meeting managers halfway when you see them calmly coming out of the dugout to ask a question or even argue is perfectly acceptable, in fact I encourage it because it gives a sense of approachability to you and this gives you somewhere to go when you walk away after the argument has gone too long (rather than walking aimlessly looking like you are running away from the confrontation). However, if you see a manager sprinting/ jogging out of the dugout this is not a situation where you should meet them halfway, they have already showed you that this is going to be a somewhat heated confrontation and approaching them may result in contact that the manager could say you initiated by you walking towards them. This all, as you can see, totally depends on the situation.