#3 on the year

[midwayll]

Looking for feedback on this situation.  Did I handle correctly?  Would you have done anything differently?  That type of thing.  Thanks in advance.

 

LL Junior (13-14 year olds) playoff game.

 

Bottom of 1st, 2 outs, visiting team pitcher throws two high pitches in a row that I call, "ball."  Both pitches the catcher holds his glove in position for 2 or 3 seconds, shakes his head, and throws the ball back to the pitcher.  I ignore.  Next pitch pop out, inning over.

 

Bottom of 2nd, outs don't matter.  Right-handed batter, pitch outside. "Ball."  Easy call.  The catcher even moved his glove from right to left as he tried to bring the outside pitch into the strike zone.  Again, holds the glove in the strike zone for a couple of seconds, gives a big sigh, slumps shoulders, and throws ball back.  I ignore.  Never once has the pitcher indicated his displeasure with my calls.  Couple of pitches later, high fastball, catcher makes zero attempt to catch.  I mean zero.   Hits me in the throat.  Had I not been wearing a throat guard, I would be in the hospital and not typing this.  Pitch broke off one of the fasteners on my throat guard.  Home team manager had a zip tie so I could fix it.  I quietly told the catcher, "You have GOT to catch those."  Inning ends without further incident.

 

Bottom of 3rd, home team up 3-0.  No outs.  Pitcher throws a curve ball that came in high.  Catcher catches it up high and brings his glove down into the strike zone.  Obviously one of those catchers who thinks he can fool an umpire.  I call, "ball."  This time he holds the pitch, huge sigh, throws the ball back to the pitcher and shouts out, "Don't worry, that was in the zone."  While the batter is doing whatever it is that batters do to get ready for the next pitch, I am telling the catcher the pitch was high, he even knew it was high because of what he did with his glove after catching the pitch, and he was never to shout from the catcher's box again that any pitch was in the zone.  I get a big sigh and a mumbled, "OK."  Next pitch batter grounds out.  3 pitches later, high fastball, bam! right in the mask.  Catcher made zero attempt.  After calling "time" I tell the catcher, "If that happens one more time, I WILL eject you."  He claims he can't get his glove up that high and that fast to catch those pitches.  I ignore that stupid comment because it's obvious this kid can catch.  He had been lazy the whole game.  His throw backs to the pitcher were not even close on a number of occasions, making his pitcher work way too hard.  And his attempts at steals were laughable lazy.  The kid had an arm.  Don't know if it was the heat (88 with high humidity), or the fact that he didn't want to be there, but he was lazy.  Anyway, after ignoring his stupid comment, I bend over to brush off the plate.  That's when he says nice and loud, "This is a joke!."  I finish brushing off the plate, stand up, point at the catcher, then give him the big heave-oh.

 

Turns out the team only had 9 players.  In our neck of the woods, the umpires don't have lineup cards, so I didn't know that.  Can't play with 8.  Game over, visiting team forfeits.

 

I've asked myself if I had known the team only had 9 would I have ejected or would I have kept him in the game?  My answer was, I would have ejected.  As I have read on here before, the only ejection you regret is the one you didn't make.  I have no regrets about this ejection.  Sucks the game ended this way.

 

So?  Would you have ejected for that?  Done anything differently?  Any and all comments are welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

[Oldcrow]

If I had felt strongly that he had purposely allowed me to get hit with that first pitch, I probably would have called time, walked to his manager and told the manager as well as the catcher this is a warning as I believe that was done purposely....The next time it happens he is gone. It is not the umpires problem that his team is only carrying 9.

 

I watched this happen in a game I was umpiring. Men's fast pitch softball and I was doing the bases. The catcher moved out of the way and it hit the PU in the stomach area. The PU ejected him immediately....The pitcher then follows with a loud  "YOU GOTTA BE F%$&ing KIDDING ME?!" and I then ejected him.

 

I try to be understanding on the field, but when it comes to Ump safety, I have little patience

[JaxRolo]

WOW you had to eject the first time!

 

You let it go a couple of times.      

[Oldcrow]

With 13 and 14 year old I would give them the benefit of the doubt the first time but with a stern warning to player and manager. Adults, or near adult age is different for me...I would eject them the first time If I felt strongly it was done on purpose.

 

The catcher can frame and hold it there all night. I could not care less....But as soon as he opened his mouth to say it was in the zone he would have been warned.

[midwayll]

Thanks Oldcrow and Jax.  I like the advice of a warning to the manager and catcher the first time.  I was definitely giving the benefit of the doubt.  In hindsight, I was either naive or stupid.  Or both.  I've been hit like that before with a foul ball that the catcher tries for but misses.  In these instances, the catcher has always been super apologetic.  Not once did I get any kind of apology from this catcher.  I suppose I should have ejected the second time for sure.  But even then I had doubt about intent.  As I said, he was being very lazy. But the coincidence and timing of being hit should have sent red flags.  Naive, stupid, or both.

[JaxRolo]

I have a primary job that I need to pay my bills. If I have an idiotic F2 that wants to hurt me then he is gone the first time.

[Oldcrow]

It's all part of the learning process... Many times if players and coaches feel they can walk on you they will. Let them know this will not be the case. It will solve many problems before they start

[midwayll]

It's all part of the learning process... Many times if players and coaches feel they can walk on you they will. Let them know this will not be the case. It will solve many problems before they start

 

Agreed

[BRUMP]

im with rolo....im dumping on the first one....clearly had a motive and clearly made no effort....good bye

[alan2703]

Midway had adult league pitcher buzz my head few weeks back where catcher made no attempt ,was not 100% sure it was by design or not but I told the catcher I would be very unhappy and  if it happened again both he and the pitcher would be gone for both games of there double header it stopped. They also only had 9 players which of course is not my problem.

[mstaylor]

I will try to give a better answer tonight but it should have happened much sooner. The histrionics should have been handled earlier too

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[HeadHunterLA]

I think that when the shoulder slumping, sighing starts I let him quietly know that the zone is about to become the size of a quarter if he keeps that crap up. And after you got hit I would have certainly told HC that you believe it was intentional.  Good ejection.

[midwayll]

I will try to give a better answer tonight but it should have happened much sooner. The histrionics should have been handled earlier too

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

I welcome the feedback.  Thank you.

[midwayll]

I think that when the shoulder slumping, sighing starts I let him quietly know that the zone is about to become the size of a quarter if he keeps that crap up. And after you got hit I would have certainly told HC that you believe it was intentional.  Good ejection.

 

I was not 100% sure at the time.  Maybe because I didn't want to believe a catcher could do something like that.  As I said, naive, stupid, or both.  Appreciate the feedback.

[Oldcrow]

Although I understand the idea of a "Shrinking strike zone" and have seen other umps do this,  I have never been able to do it.... First of all you are making yourself look bad while trying to teach the pitcher and/or catcher a lesson...Why would any ump want to do this? I refuse to lower myself to that level. A strike is a strike and  ball is a ball. I believe firmly that your poor actions will not influence poor actions from me.

[HeadHunterLA]

Although I understand the idea of a "Shrinking strike zone" and have seen other umps do this,  I have never been able to do it.... First of all you are making yourself look bad while trying to teach the pitcher and/or catcher a lesson...Why would any ump want to do this? I refuse to lower myself to that level. A strike is a strike and  ball is a ball. I believe firmly that your poor actions will not influence poor actions from me.

It usually only takes one pitch right down the middle called a ball and they "get it".

[mstaylor]

 

Bottom of 1st, 2 outs, visiting team pitcher throws two high pitches in a row that I call, "ball."  Both pitches the catcher holds his glove in position for 2 or 3 seconds, shakes his head, and throws the ball back to the pitcher.  I ignore.

 

Tell him that the shenanigans will make it a long day. 

 

 

Bottom of 2nd, outs don't matter.  Right-handed batter, pitch outside. "Ball."  Easy call.  The catcher even moved his glove from right to left as he tried to bring the outside pitch into the strike zone.  Again, holds the glove in the strike zone for a couple of seconds, gives a big sigh, slumps shoulders, and throws ball back.  I ignore.

 

Tell him not to pull pitches, it doesn't help. Also add that is the last of the extra crap. 

 

 

 Couple of pitches later, high fastball, catcher makes zero attempt to catch.  I mean zero.   Hits me in the throat. 

 

If you are not sure then tell him he needs to get those. 

 

 

 Pitcher throws a curve ball that came in high.  Catcher catches it up high and brings his glove down into the strike zone.  Obviously one of those catchers who thinks he can fool an umpire.  I call, "ball."  This time he holds the pitch, huge sigh, throws the ball back to the pitcher and shouts out, "Don't worry, that was in the zone." 

 

GONE!!!!You have given him several chances, he isn't learning. 

[Jesse]

I agree with @mstaylor. But, in some of those instances it's a HTBT situation. You can sense these things building up and if your catcher is gaining a dislike for your zone and you've warned him and he hasn't improved, expect something to happen and ACT.

 

If he see's you're not giving him that "high" pitch he accepts it. But in this instance, he wanted to test you so he called it again. A lot of younger catchers (a 13-14 year old one in this example) have yet to learn the "subtleties" of catching and in result, they act immaturely. 

 

This game is a lot more fun if F2 is there just to have fun, serious F2's take the fun out of umpiring.

[Dannytheman]

I try to tell catchers immediatley when they sigh and make obvious to me indications of dissatisfaction. I also might mention that they are not helping the pitcher trying to frame those high and outsie pitches. I'm surethe first time it hit you straight on, you weren't sure. But if he was good for most of the ga,e, you get a sense of when they are letting one through to hit you.  It's very rare I get hit when ball is not fouled. So suspicion is there.

 

All and all, I think I reember being you years ago. Now move forward and tell the F2 faster that he is annoying you.

 

Glad you weren's seriously hurt!!

 

But as to the ejection, I see it as nothing but good!

[James Walker]

I agree with @mstaylor.

 

If he see's you're not giving him that "high" pitch he accepts it. But in this instance, he wanted to test you so he called it again. A lot of younger catchers (a 13-14 year old one in this example) have yet to learn the "subtleties" of catching and in result, they act immaturely. 

I disagree with this. Catchers at this age better understand the " subtleties" of the catcher/umpire realationship. They've been catching long enough and probably play on travel teams, high school summer leagues and regular league teams. I do however agree with the immaturity part. These kids are the defensive captain and usually the alpha dog of the team. When you get two "A" personalities ( umpire and catcher) locking horns, some of these kids just can't handle it and need an additude adjustment. If the coach ain't willing to handle it, you have to. Good dump and hopefully the catcher learns his lesson.

[BigUmp56]

I agree with everyone that says you should have ejected this catcher as soon as you were hit. And I'll add that if you even had an inkling that the pitcher was involved, he goes too. All of the little protests he was showing you prior to you being hit should have been enough as soon as you saw him make no attempt to catch the pitch.

 

Lesson learned...................

 

Tim.

[mstaylor]

I agree with everyone that says you should have ejected this catcher as soon as you were hit. And I'll add that if you even had an inkling that the pitcher was involved, he goes too. All of the little protests he was showing you prior to you being hit should have been enough as soon as you saw him make no attempt to catch the pitch.

 

Lesson learned...................

 

Tim.

The only reason I had left the pitcher out of the equation was the OP said the pitcher had shown no problem with his calls. 

[BigUmp56]

I agree with everyone that says you should have ejected this catcher as soon as you were hit. And I'll add that if you even had an inkling that the pitcher was involved, he goes too. All of the little protests he was showing you prior to you being hit should have been enough as soon as you saw him make no attempt to catch the pitch.

 

Lesson learned...................

 

Tim.

The only reason I had left the pitcher out of the equation was the OP said the pitcher had shown no problem with his calls.

I've known you long enough to know you'd probably get three for one here if you felt the pitcher and the coach had any part in it. In fact, the only time I've ever been hit intentionally was right after a coach made a visit to the mound. They were unhappy with my zone, and I got hammered on the next pitch. Dumping all three was a no brainer.

Tim.