Does the run count

[Guest Arthur Trujillo]

1 out runners on third and second. Batter hits a pop fly and is caught for the second out. This creates a force play. Runner at third tags up and heads for home plate. Runner at second is thrown out at second trying to get back to second. The runner at third scores before the third out at second. Does the run count?

[mstaylor]

Def of a force: A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base

by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

Def. of an appeal: An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules by the offensive

team.

7.08d:(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his

base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base

after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play

7.10a: 7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—

(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his

original base is tagged;

These are all the rulebook quotes to support clawdad's quote above. Remember you can never be forced backwards. This is a very common misconception in baseball. The play yu describe is a live ball appeal. Hopefully you will stick around and dispell some more myths.

[clawdad]

1 out runners on third and second. Batter hits a pop fly and is caught for the second out. This creates a force play. Runner at third tags up and heads for home plate. Runner at second is thrown out at second trying to get back to second. The runner at third scores before the third out at second. Does the run count?

First, to the part I highlighted:  it doesn't create a force play.   It is an appeal by the defense that the runner left base prior to the fly ball being contacted (caught) by the fielder. This makes it a time play.

 

 

Therefore, as long as the runner touched home prior to the out at 2B, then the run scores.

 

OBR 7.08 (d) & 7.10 (a)

[maven]

Yep, this is an appeal play. And a retouch appeal can NEVER be a force play, which makes deciding whether your scoring question is a time play easy.

[noumpere]

You (meaning the OP) can find this exact play (with perhaps slightly different bases involved which doesn't matter) in the rule book 4.09 "How a team scores" last ruling:

APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right

field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right

fielder’s throw beat him to the base. Three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith

reached first base, hence Jones’ run counts. It was not a force play.

[blue23ll]

Remember a FORCE play FORCES the runners to leave their bases due to action by the batter. On a fly ball, no one is forced to leave their base, they do it voluntarily.