Balk or not on squeeze play

[bluegorilla]

  Fed rules

                A: R3 breaks for home as B1 squares to bunt . F1 disengages to rear of pitcher's plate and throws to F2 who tags out R3 .

                B: Same play but B1 bunts ball and R1 is not tagged.

 

                What's your call ?

[mjr_2013]

A. Legal. Out. When he steps off don't think of him as a pitcher, he becomes F1. This is the very beginning of Rule 6 in the FED book

B. Interference on the batter. Time is called. If there are two outs, the batter is out (no run scores). If there are zero or one out, the runner is out (no run scores). This is under 8-4 of the FED book I think.

 

In any situation, when he disengages to the rear of the pitcher's plate, he is no longer held to the balk limitations.

[bluegorilla]

7-1 ART5.......it is also a balk if a runner or runners are on base and the pitcher , while he is not touching the pitcher's plate , makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch

[BalkHawk]

You don't actually confuse a disengage and throw to retire a stealing runner as a stretch/set/leg kick/pitch. Do you?

[bluegorilla]

Lot of things happening on this play . How about a safety squeeze and the runner is not moving . I brought this to the forum becase a coach at my grandson's practice was working on defending squeeze plays tonight and asked me these questions . I told him I thought it would be quicker for the pitcher to deliver the ball high and tight like I did back in the day . Also , isn't throwing the ball directly over the plate a motion normally associated with his pitch ? If you see the squeeze coming are you going to still be looking at the pitcher's foot ?

[carolinablue]

 This is a mistake by the offense. The runner should not break until the pitcher has commited. The pitcher has every right to disengage and make a play at the plate.

 

If I can tell a runner is stealing home and a play is imminent I do watch what the pitcher does closely because this is something you may need to know in order to make a call. I need to know whether were dealing with a pitch or a throw. Also, you have a good chance of an illegal disengage or a start, stop balk in this situation.

[maven]

7.3.5 SITUATION G:

With no outs and F1 in the set position, R1, who is on third base, attempts to steal home. F1 legally steps backward off the pitcher's plate and throws home. B2 hits the ball.

RULING: Typically, batter's interference is a delayed dead ball in order to give the defense an opportunity to make an out on the initial putout attempt. Since the batter hit the ball, the defense was not afforded an opportunity to make a play. Therefore, the ball is declared dead immediately. R1 is out because of B2's interference. (5-1-2a, 7-3-5, 8-4-2l)

[maven]

Also , isn't throwing the ball directly over the plate a motion normally associated with his pitch ? If you see the squeeze coming are you going to still be looking at the pitcher's foot ?

1. No, not if he has first legally disengaged.
2. Absolutely. All umpires must know the status of the ball (pitched, batted, or thrown) at all times.

No reason to look at R3, as nothing will happen to him until he reaches the plate area.

[noumpere]

You don't actually confuse a disengage and throw to retire a stealing runner as a stretch/set/leg kick/pitch. Do you?

Depends on what the pitcher does and sometimes you need to umpire but I think you can tell the difference between a throw and a pitching motion.

 

Lot of things happening on this play . How about a safety squeeze and the runner is not moving . I brought this to the forum becase a coach at my grandson's practice was working on defending squeeze plays tonight and asked me these questions . I told him I thought it would be quicker for the pitcher to deliver the ball high and tight like I did back in the day . Also , isn't throwing the ball directly over the plate a motion normally associated with his pitch ? If you see the squeeze coming are you going to still be looking at the pitcher's foot ?

If its a safety squeeze and the runner isnt coming or feinting in fed then its a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base and the exception doesn't apply.

[bluegorilla]

 

You don't actually confuse a disengage and throw to retire a stealing runner as a stretch/set/leg kick/pitch. Do you?

Depends on what the pitcher does and sometimes you need to umpire but I think you can tell the difference between a throw and a pitching motion.

 

Lot of things happening on this play . How about a safety squeeze and the runner is not moving . I brought this to the forum becase a coach at my grandson's practice was working on defending squeeze plays tonight and asked me these questions . I told him I thought it would be quicker for the pitcher to deliver the ball high and tight like I did back in the day . Also , isn't throwing the ball directly over the plate a motion normally associated with his pitch ? If you see the squeeze coming are you going to still be looking at the pitcher's foot ?

If its a safety squeeze and the runner isnt coming or feinting in fed then its a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base and the exception doesn't apply.

 

So , while watching the pitcher from C , I am supposed to determine if the runner is coming and if he is , did he start before or after the pitcher disengages ? The coach had the pitcher disengaging and throwing home on a suicide as well as a safety squeeze , I still say throw it high and tight without disengaging ! Thanks for the replies guys . 

[maven]

I guess I don't see the worry.

 

Why would F1 disengage on a safety squeeze? He steps off when he sees the runner go.

 

A balk after disengaging is unlikely here: since F1 may legally feint to HP, why would he throw unless for the purpose of making a play or (FED) driving the runner back?

[grayhawk]

This business about a safety squeeze doesn't fit in this conversation.  On a safety squeeze, R3 doesn't break until he knows the batter is going to contact the ball, so why would F1 disengage to throw home on this play?  Makes no sense.

 

Now, if R3 broke too early on a suicide squeeze, I could see why F1 would disengage.