Fair/foul ownership with BU in A

[Wesley]

LL, 60’, 9/10U, I’m 2^nd year man working PU, with a very experienced trainer/evaluator working BU in A. B1 hits a ground shot down 1B line.  I clear F2 to the left and get set astride the line just in time to see the ball hop over the front inside corner of 1B.  No fair ball could be tighter.  Book and pre-game has ownership of fair/foul over the bag and down the RF line belonging to BU in A.  I withhold a signal, waiting on BU.  After what I thought was a somewhat long pause (but who cares what I think cause I’m the new guy) and brief eye contact, BU signals fair and I mimic.  DT is of course on 1B side and coaches and fans are screaming murder for a foul ball.  BR pulls up at 2B.

 

Between innings my partner comes in and I ask him if I got it right on the ownership of fair/foul.  In his answer he quietly takes ownership of the call, but said PU “had the angle.† I get that a delay in the call may be to see what the new guy was going to do, but how do I interpret “had the angle†in the future?

 

Thoughts?

 

(I should have asked him post-game, but he was on his horse to get out of Dodge, and after an exceptional 10U complete game, we were getting hung up on the way out by spectators commenting to us on the game and I forgot about the fair/foul.)

 

 

[elares]

front INSIDE corner?  the rest of the situation sounds like the front outside corner was in play.

[JaxRolo]

You did a great job. It's bu call all the way. I don't care about "the angle"

[Wesley]

Sorry, got my jargon wrong, the corner of the bag closest to home plate, on the foul line.

[grayhawk]

Sounds like you handled it well, except DO NOT MIMIC fair/foul.  Also, I don't know what the heck he is talking about with "PU had the angle".  It's flat out his call unless he has to bail to prevent getting hit by the ball (which should be covered in your pregame).  If he is making his call and it's this close, his point should be emphatic.

[Wesley]

(Not disagreeing because I’m the new guy as I mentioned).  I have a question to understand the thinking:

At what point do we echo a foul call so other base runners and fielders can gear down?  In the OP there obviously weren’t any base runners, but in the case of other base runners, such as R2 headed to 3B, does the BU at some point echo a foul call to shut him down?  Or just specifically PU w/BU in A, no mimic?

 

And a second part:

I assume the do not mimic fair/foul is a universal mechanic that I have missed so far in my training and reading.  I’m interested in understanding the downside of mimicking?  If a ball is called foul, it stands right or wrong.  In the OP I gave no signal, passing on the call to BU.  Once he makes a call either way, we’re going to live with it.  As far as selling the fair call to the world, it seems to me that since everyone see both umpires are (effectively) on the line, once he gives his signal and I mimic it, probably most people watching (except other umpires) will perceive us making the call simultaneously and think “wow, those guys are right on top of it, it MUST be fair!â€

 

But I want to be professional like the big dogs.  Flame on if that’s what I need (but explanation would be helpful).  Thanks.

[maven]

James, regarding your 2 questions:

1. Don't mirror a F/F call. Why would you need to tell runners, when there are two perfectly satisfactory base coaches with nothing better to do at that point? Seriously, if I see a runner who doesn't know I might say something quietly to him, but it's not really my business.

2. F/F is a call like any other. One call, one umpire. Do you advocate mirroring ball/strike calls? Safe/outs on the bases? If not, why would you mirror F/F?

[Wesley]

Right on.  Thanks.  Learn something new everyday!

[grayhawk]

Maven covered it, but I will add one more reason not to mirror fair/foul.  If the mirroring umpire, for some odd reason, points the wrong way, then you've got a potential $h!t storm on your hands.  There just is no reason to mirror this call.

[Wesley]

Appreciate the input.  I tend to overthink things.  I gotta work on that along with the laundry-list of other crud I do wrong! 

Thanks gents.

[NFUA_44]

James,

just keep pluggin away man, after 17 years my list is longer than when I started!     Knowing that I'll never get it all perfect is one of the reasons to keep it fresh and strive to get better every year.

[Aging_Arbiter]

An easy way to think of responsibility on that call, is to image a pane of glass running along the front edge (side facing home plate)and touching the bag. If the ball breaks that glass, it is BU call all the way. The ball has "reached" the base and is no longer your responsibility.

 

Just to add a twist, let's say there were runners......you now have additional responsibilities.  With runners, BU is no longer in A (in two man).  So now you have THAT F/F call as well as any touches at 3B as well as any plays at the plate.  Be aware, Be ready to adjust, then relax and have fun.  If you start over thinking too many things, you're going to miss that one thing that matters.