Plate Appeal

[soapbox]

I believe there was an entire discussion on the board about this a couple of weeks ago.  Intermediate field and kid hits a bomb over the fence.  Misses home!  3 inches short of plate and about the same past.  No big deal, who watches?  And then it begins.  The rumble in the dugout.  Apeal home, apeal home.  And all I'm thinking is they won't.  Well they did.  And yes, I banged him out.  They did their job and I did mine.  It sucked, but oh well.

[cyclonehokiece]

3" is quite the gross miss.  Good job, runner out for missing the plate and his own "boner".

[BigUmpire]

I make it a point to overtly stare at home plate when this happens.

Sort of sends a message that " I am watching"

Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

 

Tough call that makes you the bad guy to all.

[soapbox]

I never stare.  Not helping either team.

[BigUmpire]

I never stare.  Not helping either team.

Preventive umpireing.

[maven]

 

I never stare.  Not helping either team.

Preventive umpireing.

 

Be careful here: what exactly are you preventing? A baserunning mistake? Isn't that unfairly assisting the offense?

 

I try to do nothing different when a runner misses a base. As PU I have touches at 3B and HP and responsibility to rule on properly constituted appeals at those bases. If the offense makes a mistake, then they're liable on appeal. If the defense cannot appeal properly, then they won't get the out. Not my place to prevent any of that.

 

If you're thinking of preventing something else, I apologize for misinterpreting your point but would like to hear more.

[BigUmpire]

No one wants to bang a kid out that just hit a homerun.

If I can do a little extra to prevent this I will everytime.

How does soapbox feel today?

[maven]

Easy there, Big. If you don't want to discuss, why post? Your attitude shouts soapbox more than mine. But enough about you...

 

I don't WANT to bang him out either. But they are paying me to enforce the rules and the spirit of fairness.

 

You and I seem to disagree about what fairness requires in the general case, which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

 

I will say that I can imagine situations where I would try to prevent an out, for example in a 15-0 game where the losing team jacks one and the BR misses the plate by less than 1 inch. I might even deny that appeal...

 

But I don't think such situations warrant a general rule to prevent all baserunning infractions by tipping off the offense (and the defense too, come to think of it), or even trying to prevent an appeal of a missed base on a HR. I don't inject myself into the game that way.

[BigUmpire]

P

 

Easy there, Big. If you don't want to discuss, why post? Your attitude shouts soapbox more than mine. But enough about you...

 

I don't WANT to bang him out either. But they are paying me to enforce the rules and the spirit of fairness.

 

You and I seem to disagree about what fairness requires in the general case, which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

 

I will say that I can imagine situations where I would try to prevent an out, for example in a 15-0 game where the losing team jacks one and the BR misses the plate by less than 1 inch. I might even deny that appeal...

 

But I don't think such situations warrant a general rule to prevent all baserunning infractions by tipping off the offense (and the defense too, come to think of it), or even trying to prevent an appeal of a missed base on a HR. I don't inject myself into the game that way.

Good point.

[scrounge]

No one wants to bang a kid out that just hit a homerun.

If I can do a little extra to prevent this I will everytime.

How does soapbox feel today?

 

If you're doing something outside the ordinary like staring, seems like you're increasing the odds of banging the kid out, not preventing it. Not trying to climb upon the soapbox, just if I were coach and saw the umpire staring at home plate, I'd think something was up.

[BigUmpire]

If I were a coach, and I have been, I would start shouting " Step on home!"

If he still misses it then the dumass rule applies.

[soapbox]

How do I feel today?  Hmmmmm!

 

Property taxes approaching 15K in northern NJ

Car Insurance premiums thru the roof

Self employed in trucking and dealing with run away expenses.  Tolls, fuel, to say a few....look up New York and New Jersey.  You'd be shocked.

4 kids still in the house and a food bill of $1600 a month.

 

I could go on and on, but would imagine you get the picture.

 

How do I feel today?  Grinding it every day.  How do I feel about making an out call?  Just fine.  The home team made the mistake.  Coach knows me.  The kid knows me.  Everyone expects me to make the fair, unbiased call.  I'm sure will make them better in the future, but that's not my call.  The proper appeal is.

 

No offense, but feel free to influence a game.  Me, I call it as I see it.

[BigUmpire]

How do I feel today?  Hmmmmm!

 

Property taxes approaching 15K in northern NJ

Car Insurance premiums thru the roof

Self employed in trucking and dealing with run away expenses.  Tolls, fuel, to say a few....look up New York and New Jersey.  You'd be shocked.

4 kids still in the house and a food bill of $1600 a month.

 

I could go on and on, but would imagine you get the picture.

 

How do I feel today?  Grinding it every day.  How do I feel about making an out call?  Just fine.  The home team made the mistake.  Coach knows me.  The kid knows me.  Everyone expects me to make the fair, unbiased call.  I'm sure will make them better in the future, but that's not my call.  The proper appeal is.

 

No offense, but feel free to influence a game.  Me, I call it as I see it.

I took your side and you are accusing me of influenceing a game, WOW!

[th3]

wow!

[sdix00]

I make it a point to overtly stare at home plate when this happens.

Sort of sends a message that " I am watching"

Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

 

Tough call that makes you the bad guy to all.

 

 

I get the intent and it would be nice to prevent a cheap out which scratches the homerun. 

 

BUT - 

I can say that when the subject of staring at a missed plate comes up (you ain't the only one), the general consensus is that we should not be doing this. 

 

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xYjvgrhg018J:forum.officiating.com/softball/92170-appeal-home-plate-runner-missed-touching-plate.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:k3hd3aDhfqkJ:https://www.umpire.org/vb/showthread.php%3Ft%3D12881+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091101&content_id=7597644&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

"Do Nothing", and I mean nothing, is the correct mechanic here. 

[UmpJM]

I just make it very obvious to everyone that I'm watching the runner until he reaches/passes home plate.

 

If he misses it anyway, that's on him and I have no hesitation or regret in sustaining a proper appeal.

 

JM

[mstaylor]

How do I feel today?  Hmmmmm!

 

Property taxes approaching 15K in northern NJ

Car Insurance premiums thru the roof

Self employed in trucking and dealing with run away expenses.  Tolls, fuel, to say a few....look up New York and New Jersey.  You'd be shocked.

4 kids still in the house and a food bill of $1600 a month.

 

I could go on and on, but would imagine you get the picture.

 

How do I feel today?  Grinding it every day.  How do I feel about making an out call?  Just fine.  The home team made the mistake.  Coach knows me.  The kid knows me.  Everyone expects me to make the fair, unbiased call.  I'm sure will make them better in the future, but that's not my call.  The proper appeal is.

 

No offense, but feel free to influence a game.  Me, I call it as I see it.

I agree fuel prices are high but I was in NJ last week and your diesel is $0.10 cheaper than here and we have to pump it. Oh, I have no problem banging a gross miss. 

[HeadHunterLA]

Can't for the life of me why anyone would "stare" at home plate in a situation like that, doesn't make sense to me.  If they make an appeal, make your call.  If they don't, get on with the job at hand.  Game time in 1 hour and 52 minutes, can't wait to get out from behind this damn desk!!!

[mstaylor]

I reread the thread, BU, when you say stare at the plate, do you mean you watch the plate be touched or stare at it after? If it is former, that is correct, if the latter that is wrong. We have to watch all touches so we can rule on any appeal. If something is missed we carry on like it was touched and leave it to the defense to make the appeal. It is their right to make the appeal, but it is also their obligation to watch for misses. 

[BigUmpire]

I reread the thread, BU, when you say stare at the plate, do you mean you watch the plate be touched or stare at it after? If it is former, that is correct, if the latter that is wrong. We have to watch all touches so we can rule on any appeal. If something is missed we carry on like it was touched and leave it to the defense to make the appeal. It is their right to make the appeal, but it is also their obligation to watch for misses. 

Watch the plate to be touched.

Why would anyone stare at home afer the runner has passed it?

I just get into position to see the touch.

[UmpJM]

Big,

 

From your initial post, I could not tell whether you were suggesting "staring at the plate" BEFORE the runner got there, or AFTER he had missed.

 

I believe I was not the only one.

 

I think it a fair inference that those who were "giving you grief" on this thread were thinking you had suggested AFTER the miss.

 

JM

[BigUmpire]

Probably so.

Thanks.

 

I think they are jealous of my good looks and superior intelligence.

And maybe not.