Simultaneous Possession / Obstruction

[cp9]

Had a strange one yesterday at a game I was watching. Here's the sitch:

R2

R3

1 out

Batter bunts to F1 who does a great job of looking R3 back to bag. F1 then throws to F3 for out 2. During this, R2 for some reason advances to third. R3 then runs home, where F2 is waiting with the ball. As R3 retreats back to third, F5 clearly obstructs him. R3 is tagged out. OC argues obstruction, but umpire says no obstruction because once R2 touched third, R3 had no right to the base.

My reading of 8-2-8 doesn't support this and I didn't find anything in the case book. Whatcha got here?

[basejester]

If R3 retreats to 3rd base, he wouldn't be in jeopardy.

 

I'm not even sure that matters, though.  Obstruction.

[Mike Prince]

If R3 was forced home then he loses his right to 3B, but in this case he can return.

[basejester]

Let's suppose he is forced.  Why would that negate the obstruction?  Perhaps he anticipates that the force will be removed.

[Mike Prince]

I thought of that as soon as I posted. It's obstruction either way and R3 gets home.

[noumpere]

Well, you have to admire the creativity of the coach for makng that argument.  Doesnt mean hes right or that you have to afree.  Just that they'll argue anything that they dont understand if it might get a right ruling to be reversed in their favour.

[mstaylor]

Coach is wrong, carry on. 

[cp9]

Coach is wrong, carry on. 

Ok then, why is the coach wrong?  What am I missing?  Why can't R3 return to third base?

[Jocko]

If there were no OBS and R3 retreated to 3B while R2 is still on the 3B, who is out on a tag? Coach was right. Ump was wrong.

[cp9]

I have always thought about obstruction in simple of terms.  In my mind, the only way I would negate an obstruction is if there was MC, or the runner leaped over the player.  Other than that, I can't think of any rule that would negate an obstruction (though I'm sure there probably are).

[Richvee]

This is the HS board. So FED rules say R3 is awarded home. You say he was obviously obstructed and FED tells us at least one base beyond the last base legally acquired, so he's awarded home here.  Additionally, umpire is wrong. R3 still has the right to 3rd. As Jocko stated. I think this is a cut and dry call. 

 

Can someone help me with the call here in OBR? R2 now standing on 3rd, R3 obstructed by F5 trying to return to 3rd. 

[mstaylor]

Coach is wrong, carry on. 

Ok then, why is the coach wrong?  What am I missing?  Why can't R3 return to third base?

Sorry I was thinking the DC said the runner couldn't return. In that case the umpire was wrong, award home and leave the trail runner at third. 

[noumpere]

Well, you have to admire the creativity of the coach for makng that argument.  Doesnt mean hes right or that you have to afree.  Just that they'll argue anything that they dont understand if it might get a right ruling to be reversed in their favour.

I don't know who this was using my account yesterday but this seems totally screwed up to me.  At least I waited until the last day of march before making my one mistake for the month.

 

The coach was right -- it was OBS and R3 should have been awarded home in all codes (i'm assuming it was a run-down so a play was being made on R3 at the time of the OBS).

[alex7]

This is the HS board. So FED rules say R3 is awarded home. You say he was obviously obstructed and FED tells us at least one base beyond the last base legally acquired, so he's awarded home here.  Additionally, umpire is wrong. R3 still has the right to 3rd. As Jocko stated. I think this is a cut and dry call. 

 

Can someone help me with the call here in OBR? R2 now standing on 3rd, R3 obstructed by F5 trying to return to 3rd. 

In NCAA and OBR this is type A obstruction and carries with it the same one-base award beyond last legally obtained base.