Insurance

[Findingtime]

Can you guys give some guidance on the best type of insurance we umpires should get?

I carry a liability umbrella policy and was under an impession that I would be covered under that. After talking with my agent he informed me that I more than likely wouldn't be since I get paid.

So now I am researching the different programs that offer umpire insurance and thought I would ask for some input to make sure I am not missing anything. You can read what the different players offer but who knows how hard it is to actually put in a claim and to use the actual coverage.

Thanks in advance for any input.

[HokieUmp]

Question:

How many independent contractor umpires actually carry insurance?

I personally do not

you better hope "little Johnny" does not get hurt in game you are working--when everyone get sued

Again, late to the dance - sorry.

 

I have to agree with Jocko, and disagree with this (where "this" is spiritump's post).  I do not carry insurance, and have never carried insurance, unless it was covered by the dues I paid to my association via NFHS, or maybe PONY.  But I've not gone out on my own and spent my own cash money on it.  Waste of time/money.

 

The argument above about "little Johnny?"  That's the argument insurance companies WANT you to fall for.  I've been on more than one umpire board, and I've seen more than one challenge made out there when people say something like that.  It generally goes where someone warns The Brotherhood about "you don't want to get sued for that," it is then eventually requested that evidence of a SUCCESSFUL lawsuit be produced.  It never is.

 

Yes, you might get sued.  ANY idiot can file a lawsuit - sort of how any idiot with a keyboard can write for the Bleacher Report - but that doesn't mean they can WIN it.

 

I will buy health insurance (which is needed far more by us as umpires);  I will buy car insurance;  I will by home insurance.  I will not buy 'umpire' insurance.  Do not let the terrorists win, boys.

[basejester]

I've been on more than one umpire board, and I've seen more than one challenge made out there when people say something like that.  It generally goes where someone warns The Brotherhood about "you don't want to get sued for that," it is then eventually requested that evidence of a SUCCESSFUL lawsuit be produced.  It never is.

Unsuccessful lawsuits can be expensive, also. Part of what you buying is a sort of subscription to a legal service.

I get what you're saying, though. There are acceptable risks and insurance necessarily costs more than those risks averaged over time.

[yawetag]

Yes, you might get sued.  ANY idiot can file a lawsuit - sort of how any idiot with a keyboard can write for the Bleacher Report - but that doesn't mean they can WIN it.

 

And, in order for "little Johnny" lose, you have to successfully defend your case. This requires a lawyer, whose hourly rate isn't cheap.

 

I'm not advocating legal services, but your statement above isn't a good argument.

[gnhbua93]

HokieUmp you don't carry insurance because you live in Japan, that is an honor culture.

[sdix00]

Yes, you might get sued.  ANY idiot can file a lawsuit - sort of how any idiot with a keyboard can write for the Bleacher Report - but that doesn't mean they can WIN it.

 

 

Does anyone here umpire in Little League?  Talk about a liability trap.

Little League has one of the most comprehensive safety policies in all of youth baseball.  To protect the kids, right?  Not really,  LL Intl has real assets to protect so they put lots of rules and policies in place to protect themselves.  Slide or avoid, no head first sliding, etc.   If someone gets hurt on a LL field, chances are it is because they ignored a rule/regulation/policy.   LL’s lawyer simply says, “yeah we have a rule for that†and they are probably going to be OK.  So the parents sue the local league, coaches and the umpire next.   Most LL umpires are NOT volunteers and throw on a backwards cap, pillow and take a $25 game fee and do not have insurance.  This umpire is screwed.

For example -

We all know we should inspect equipment in a LL game, but WHERE does it mandate this?  

I asked this question in a LL week long camp last year and NO ONE, not the instructors, or 75 students could answer it.   They all took it for granted.   Finally someone pointed out 3.01(a) “Before the game begins the umpires shall-require strict observance of all rules governing team personnel, implements of play and equipment of players;† and everyone was happy.  I said, nope.  It’s actually in the Appendix at the end of the book:

“Umpires, managers and coaches are instructed to inspect bats before games and practices - as they always should - to determine if bats might have been altered.â€

Most folks in the room had NEVER read the appendix.   That, to me is a major problem, for the appendix is where many  of the policies that protect LL Intl exist.

In fact, there are FOUR PAGES of safety policies that no one has read.

Poor umpires.   It’s a trap.   LL is the easiest environment  to violate rules, and as the Legal Guide to Officiating points out, not enforcing the rules is the easiest way to open yourself to liability.

Have you ever had  a dugout without an adult in it?   Ever allowed a kid to keep his chain and cross as long as he taped or hid it from view? Any gopher holes in the outfield?  Ever allowed a kid to use a helmet with a sticker on it?   

Well, all it takes is a dugout injury, an impaled runner, a snapped ankle, or a busted helmet due to a bad reaction between the plastic helmet and chinese adhesive in the sticker- while you may not be directly responsible, LL will simply say, “we have rules for that, you didn’t follow them. Good luck buddy. Hope you paid your $45 for insurance.â€

Screw that.   The fact that a parent can sue me for ANYTHING and I have to defend myself against the stupidest things means that the terrorists have already won.

I am paying the $45 and reading the book cover to cover before I set foot on a ball field, especially in California.

[yawetag]

My suggestion: research liability.

 

The fact is, as an umpire, your liability in most situations is zero. The problem is that our courts allow someone to sue another person for any reason. So, naturally, a parent is going to sue everyone within a one mile radius - because their lawyer is doing it. The hope is that someone on that chain of command (or away from it, as the poor umpire is usually) will either think they're screwed and settle out of court or will have liability insurance and find it cheaper to pay the deductable than to pay a lawyer to fight the case, which often doesn't take much more than showing up to the first hearing and proving your lack of liability -- at a cost of $100 or more per hour.

[HokieUmp]

Yes, you might get sued.  ANY idiot can file a lawsuit - sort of how any idiot with a keyboard can write for the Bleacher Report - but that doesn't mean they can WIN it.

 

And, in order for "little Johnny" lose, you have to successfully defend your case. This requires a lawyer, whose hourly rate isn't cheap.

 

I'm not advocating legal services, but your statement above isn't a good argument.

 

It's not my best, granted.  Thing is, when Mr and Mrs Johnny file their suit, the first guy dropped ends up being the game official.  That's because they're going after the real money - the league (and its parent, where applicable).  There's not that much 'defending' one has to do.

 

Do what you gotta do;  I don't intend to line the pockets of an insurance company for an unneeded policy.

[HokieUmp]

HokieUmp you don't carry insurance because you live in Japan, that is an honor culture.

 

I live in Japan in the loosest sense of the word.  I live on-base, and work on-base.  And most of my games involve US schools.  My actual interaction with Japanese society approaches zero.  And I would argue the 'honor culture,' while it has its origins, it survives mostly off reputation.

 

(I mean, every car accident has blame spread to all participants.  Even if you're sitting at a light, and get rear-ended, you get 10% of the blame apportioned to you.  Why?  If you weren't sitting there, the other guy would have had nothing to hit.  Maybe that's what prevents lawsuits - if everyone shares blame, then who can sue? - but it's still pretty strange of a concept.)

 

I don't carry insurance because I don't feel the need, either for what the insurance "buys" me, or for the expense.

[Welpe]

There was an incident several years ago here in Texas when a football official ran into an assistant coach on the sideline. The coach, Terry English was severely injured and left permanently disabled.

 

The company that carried the worker's compensation insurance for the school district ended up suing the officials and TASO (Texas Association of Sports Officials). The case drug on for a good while before the officials were dismissed from the suit but not before a lot of legal fees were paid in the matter. TASO did right by these officials in helping to defend them and writing an amicus brief. They even counter-sued the insurance company and eventually won a judgment against them for filing a frivolous suit. Legally the outcome did end up favoring the officials.

 

My point is, things happen. I'd rather pay a small percentage of my officiating pay on an expense that is a write off and add another layer of insulation against losing everything to officiate some sports. It's cheap peace of mind and as somebody that works three sports at various levels, the coverage I have makes sense. Like other choices I've made in terms of personal safety, I hope I never need it but it's nice to know it is there if I do.

 

For the record, Coach English died not too long ago as a result of his injuries. This is one of the reasons why sideline management is so important in football.

[mstaylor]

I am a stickler for enforcing safety rules at whatever level I work. If there is a safety rule and we ignore it then we are negligent. Now if we kick a bat for being illegal and the team tries to slide it back in and we miss it, we should be clear. Doesn't mean we won't get sued, just means we should be good. I also have been involved an assault,which is covered by NASO. If you don't want extra insurance, go for it.