Strange appeal play ....

[Thunderheads]

This story comes from my primary partner who was doing a Fall tournament while I was on vacation. He had a "game off" break and wandered over to another field before relaxing a bit, and saw the following ....

Not a ton of details, but the bottom line follows....

R1, R2 , ... 1 out ....

drive to the gap .... R2 rounds 3rd ....misses it ..... R1 comes around to score and misses 3rd also.

Play comes to a stop and the defensive manager (obviously saw something) tells his pitcher to appeal to third.

The appeal happens, and they state the runner missed 3rd, .... BU says, "which runner"? Coach says, "first one" PU says, "safe", coach says, ... "second runner"??

PU says "he's out, run doesn't score"

My partners question, along with me would be .......

They must execute an appeal on each runner, correct?

[Rich Ives]

This story comes from my primary partner who was doing a Fall tournament while I was on vacation. He had a "game off" break and wandered over to another field before relaxing a bit, and saw the following ....

Not a ton of details, but the bottom line follows....

R1, R2 , ... 1 out ....

drive to the gap .... R2 rounds 3rd ....misses it ..... R1 comes around to score and misses 3rd also.

Play comes to a stop and the defensive manager (obviously saw something) tells his pitcher to appeal to third.

The appeal happens, and they state the runner missed 3rd, .... BU says, "which runner"? Coach says, "first one" PU says, "safe", coach says, ... "second runner"??

PU says "he's out, run doesn't score"

My partners question, along with me would be .......

They must execute an appeal on each runner, correct?

Yes - they have to appeal each runner.

R2's run scores (R1 was not forced at 3B so the third out is not a force)

[Thunderheads]

This story comes from my primary partner who was doing a Fall tournament while I was on vacation. He had a "game off" break and wandered over to another field before relaxing a bit, and saw the following ....

Not a ton of details, but the bottom line follows....

R1, R2 , ... 1 out ....

drive to the gap .... R2 rounds 3rd ....misses it ..... R1 comes around to score and misses 3rd also.

Play comes to a stop and the defensive manager (obviously saw something) tells his pitcher to appeal to third.

The appeal happens, and they state the runner missed 3rd, .... BU says, "which runner"? Coach says, "first one" PU says, "safe", coach says, ... "second runner"??

PU says "he's out, run doesn't score"

My partners question, along with me would be .......

They must execute an appeal on each runner, correct?

Yes - they have to appeal each runner.

R2's run scores (R1 was not forced at 3B so the third out is not a force)

Thanks Rich, that's what he thought as well.

So, ... when the coach yells "second one" ... what does PU do at that point? Say nothing? Ignore it?

[Rich Ives]

So, ... when the coach yells "second one" ... what does PU do at that point? Say nothing? Ignore it?

Rule on it - he's appealing the second runner.

[Thunderheads]

So, ... when the coach yells "second one" ... what does PU do at that point? Say nothing? Ignore it?

Rule on it - he's appealing the second runner.

Ok, hang on, I wasn't clear.

I thought you're saying that the pitcher must make a formal appeal on each runner. So, on the first, ... safe. Throw back to pitcher, ...and do it again? Yes?

[noumpere]

So, ... when the coach yells "second one" ... what does PU do at that point? Say nothing? Ignore it?

Rule on it - he's appealing the second runner.

Ok, hang on, I wasn't clear.

I thought you're saying that the pitcher must make a formal appeal on each runner. So, on the first, ... safe. Throw back to pitcher, ...and do it again? Yes?

no the pitcher does not need to do that. As long as the ball remains live it does not need to go to the pitcher to make an appeal. Just hold the ball and touch the base or the runner and make it obvious. Assuming F5 was on the base the whole time here as soon as the coach says "second one" then thats a valid appeal and needs a ruling -- apparently just as was done even if they got the rule on the run scoring wrong.

[Thunderheads]

So, ... when the coach yells "second one" ... what does PU do at that point? Say nothing? Ignore it?

Rule on it - he's appealing the second runner.

Ok, hang on, I wasn't clear.

I thought you're saying that the pitcher must make a formal appeal on each runner. So, on the first, ... safe. Throw back to pitcher, ...and do it again? Yes?

no the pitcher does not need to do that. As long as the ball remains live it does not need to go to the pitcher to make an appeal. Just hold the ball and touch the base or the runner and make it obvious. Assuming F5 was on the base the whole time here as soon as the coach says "second one" then thats a valid appeal and needs a ruling -- apparently just as was done even if they got the rule on the run scoring wrong.

Ok, thanks! Rich's response lead me to believe they had to do what I stated, thanks for clarifying. Not sure what you mean by the run rule wrong?

He said the second run didn't score because that's the runner who was ruled that missed 3rd

[Rich Ives]

He said the second run didn't score because that's the runner who was ruled that missed 3rd

I assumed in the OP that he meant the first run didn't score because it's intuitively obvious that the runner who was out couldn't have his run score.

[Thunderheads]

He said the second run didn't score because that's the runner who was ruled that missed 3rd

I assumed in the OP that he meant the first run didn't score because it's intuitively obvious that the runner who was out couldn't have his run score.

my fault ... I was unclear

[Dannytheman]

God, I love this site!! Good back and forth fellows and nicely stated! :rose:

[Jocko]

God, I love this site!! Good back and forth fellows and nicely stated!

Gonna hold hands and sing everything is beautifful? :D

[UmpTTS43]

This story comes from my primary partner who was doing a Fall tournament while I was on vacation. He had a "game off" break and wandered over to another field before relaxing a bit, and saw the following ....

Not a ton of details, but the bottom line follows....

R1, R2 , ... 1 out ....

drive to the gap .... R2 rounds 3rd ....misses it ..... R1 comes around to score and misses 3rd also.

Play comes to a stop and the defensive manager (obviously saw something) tells his pitcher to appeal to third.

The appeal happens, and they state the runner missed 3rd, .... BU says, "which runner"? Coach says, "first one" PU says, "safe", coach says, ... "second runner"??

PU says "he's out, run doesn't score"

My partners question, along with me would be .......

They must execute an appeal on each runner, correct?

As others have said, seperate appeals on the specific runner must be executed. This is done by identifying which runner the appeal is for.

In OBR, the order in which they are appealed has no bearing on whether or not a force is removed. When an appeal is attempted on a runner, the status of the runner at the time of the miss is taken into consideration. Ex. Appeal on R1 occurs first, out. Appeal on R2 occurs second, out. If out on R2 is third out, all runs scored are nullified since R2 was forced at the time of the miss. If an appeal on R2 is first then on R1 and if the third out is on R1, any runs that scored before R2 would count since the third out was not a force situation. If there are two outs at the time of both appeals, you award the appeal that is most beneficial to the defense regardless of the order. This would be a fourth out appeal, hence you would recognize the appeal that called out the forced runner which would nullify all runs scored on the play.

In NCAA, the order on which the runners are appealed does matter. Under NCAA accepted interps, if an appeal on R1 is upheld, this removes the force of R2 and if a subsequent appeal is made on R2 any runs that scored ahead of R2 would count.

Hope I didn't confuse the situation.

[basejester]

I thought you're saying that the pitcher must make a formal appeal on each runner. So, on the first, ... safe. Throw back to pitcher, ...and do it again? Yes?

The only reason the ball would have to go to the pitcher at all is if was a dead ball. Going to the pitcher isn't part of the appeal. It's just that the ball has to be live.

[mstaylor]

I thought you're saying that the pitcher must make a formal appeal on each runner. So, on the first, ... safe. Throw back to pitcher, ...and do it again? Yes?

The only reason the ball would have to go to the pitcher at all is if was a dead ball. Going to the pitcher isn't part of the appeal. It's just that the ball has to be live.

True, it has to go to the mound to make it live. The second appeal can stay right there because it is live at that point.