Is this one a balk?

[mazzamouth]

R2 3-2 count, the pitcher balks ( didn't some set) and delivers the pitch, which is a ball.

What happens next?

[yawetag]

In Fed, pitch doesn't matter. You've now got R3 with 3-2 count.

In non-Fed, pitch doesn't count, because the batter and all runners failed to advance one base. You've got R3 with 3-2 count.

(all bolding mine)

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

NCAA 9-3 PENALTY for a. through m.—Balk. The ball becomes dead and each runner must advance one base.

(1) If the balk immediately is followed by a pitch that permits the batter and each runner to advance a minimum of one base, the balk is ignored and the ball remains live.

[JaxRolo]

In Fed, pitch doesn't matter. You've now got R3 with 3-2 count.

In non-Fed, pitch doesn't count, because the batter and all runners failed to advance one base. You've got R3 with 3-2 count.

(all bolding mine)

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

NCAA 9-3 PENALTY for a. through m.—Balk. The ball becomes dead and each runner must advance one base.

(1) If the balk immediately is followed by a pitch that permits the batter and each runner to advance a minimum of one base, the balk is ignored and the ball remains live.

Good answer and I agree! :rolleyes:

[tiger49]

In Fed, pitch doesn't matter. You've now got R3 with 3-2 count.

In non-Fed, pitch doesn't count, because the batter and all runners failed to advance one base. You've got R3 with 3-2 count.

(all bolding mine)

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

NCAA 9-3 PENALTY for a. through m.—Balk. The ball becomes dead and each runner must advance one base.

(1) If the balk immediately is followed by a pitch that permits the batter and each runner to advance a minimum of one base, the balk is ignored and the ball remains live.

You forgot in OBR you would enforce the balk, as R2 would not advance on the base on balls. Count remains 3-2 and R2 becomes R3

[JaxRolo]

In Fed, pitch doesn't matter. You've now got R3 with 3-2 count.

In non-Fed, pitch doesn't count, because the batter and all runners failed to advance one base. You've got R3 with 3-2 count.

(all bolding mine)

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

NCAA 9-3 PENALTY for a. through m.—Balk. The ball becomes dead and each runner must advance one base.

(1) If the balk immediately is followed by a pitch that permits the batter and each runner to advance a minimum of one base, the balk is ignored and the ball remains live.

You forgot in OBR you would enforce the balk, as R2 would not advance on the base on balls. Count remains 3-2 and R2 becomes R3

Thats what he said in the second sentence. non-fed. :cheers:

[yawetag]

You forgot in OBR you would enforce the balk, as R2 would not advance on the base on balls. Count remains 3-2 and R2 becomes R3

In non-Fed, pitch doesn't count, because the batter and all runners failed to advance one base. You've got R3 with 3-2 count.

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[UMP45]

In OBR if the pitch results in ball 4 the balk is not enforced and you have a base on balls.

[Rich Ives]

In OBR if the pitch results in ball 4 the balk is not enforced and you have a base on balls.

If all runners do not advance on the pitch, you DO enforce the balk. yawetag posted the rule above, and others copied it.

[UMP45]

Your Right Rich. I knew but I had a senior moment and it came out wrong. I was just letting people know you could still have ball 4.

[mazzamouth]

In OBR if the pitch results in ball 4 the balk is not enforced and you have a base on balls.

Only if the batter and all runners advance a base safely,

[jnazz]

Would have to be a WP, PB, steal etc. (obviously with R2 advancing) situation. This would nullify the balk.

[Rich Ives]

Would have to be a WP, PB, steal etc. (obviously with R2 advancing) situation. This would nullify the balk.

On a steal - enforce the balk.

Per the MLBUM on a WP:

If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 8.05 provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk. In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call "Time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and an fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

[mstaylor]

Would have to be a WP, PB, steal etc. (obviously with R2 advancing) situation. This would nullify the balk.

On a steal - enforce the balk.

Per the MLBUM on a WP:

If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 8.05 provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk. In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call "Time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and an fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

On a steal - enforce the balk.unless the pitch is ball four or an uncaught third strike where the batter reaches first.

I added the blue part to make your statement less confusing.

[Rich Ives]

Would have to be a WP, PB, steal etc. (obviously with R2 advancing) situation. This would nullify the balk.

On a steal - enforce the balk.

Per the MLBUM on a WP:

If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 8.05 provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk. In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call "Time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and an fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

On a steal - enforce the balk.unless the pitch is ball four or an uncaught third strike where the batter reaches first.

I added the blue part to make your statement less confusing.

I don't think so. You only ignore the balk if the other runners advanced because of ball four.

MLBUM:

If the balk is followed by ball four delivered to the batter and is caught by the catcher, call "Time" and enforce the balk unless all runners advance one base because of ball four. In that situation, play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[jnazz]

OK, I'm aware that if you have a 3 ball count (prior to pitch) and there is a WP or PB then the balk is nullified (assuming all runners advance).

Now Rich, are you saying that if it's a straight steal and a caught pitch by the catcher, we're enforcing the balk immediatly if all runners aren't forced because of ball four?

[yawetag]

OK, I'm aware that if you have a 3 ball count (prior to pitch) and there is a WP or PB then the balk is nullified (assuming all runners advance).

Now Rich, are you saying that if it's a straight steal and a caught pitch by the catcher, we're enforcing the balk immediatly if all runners aren't forced because of ball four?

I think to aid in the confusion, a balk occurring on what would be ball four has one simple question: are all of the runners going to be advanced because of ball four? In other words: do I have R1, R1/R2, or R1/R2/R3? If the answer is yes, ignore the balk; if it's no, enforce the balk.

[Rich Ives]

OK, I'm aware that if you have a 3 ball count (prior to pitch) and there is a WP or PB then the balk is nullified (assuming all runners advance).

Now Rich, are you saying that if it's a straight steal and a caught pitch by the catcher, we're enforcing the balk immediatly if all runners aren't forced because of ball four?

Yes - because the MLBUM says so.

[mstaylor]

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

If the R2 is not stealing then I agree, enforce the balk, but if he is stealing on the pitch and it's ball four, I say to keep the play.

[UmpTTS43]

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

If the R2 is not stealing then I agree, enforce the balk, but if he is stealing on the pitch and it's ball four, I say to keep the play.

Once F2 has secure possession of the ball, play is ended. It is at that time we have to determine where the runners are. If R2 is stealing on the pitch and the pitch is caught, it is very unlikely that R2 will have reached third base. In this case, the balk is enforced. If a WP or PB occurs, we let the play play out and see where the runners end up. Then enforce or ignore depending on the runner positions.

[mstaylor]

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(B) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (B) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

If the R2 is not stealing then I agree, enforce the balk, but if he is stealing on the pitch and it's ball four, I say to keep the play.

Once F2 has secure possession of the ball, play is ended. It is at that time we have to determine where the runners are. If R2 is stealing on the pitch and the pitch is caught, it is very unlikely that R2 will have reached third base. In this case, the balk is enforced. If a WP or PB occurs, we let the play play out and see where the runners end up. Then enforce or ignore depending on the runner positions.

I agree 100% but Rich said I was incorrect for a WP or D3K. Catcher catches the pitch then certainly enforce the balk.

[Rich Ives]

I agree 100% but Rich said I was incorrect for a WP or D3K. Catcher catches the pitch then certainly enforce the balk.

Enforcement on a WP or D3K is conditional AND varies relative to what happens to the batter..

Reposting the MLBUM:

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(bee) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base.

In both situations (a) and (bee) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

[mstaylor]

Isn't that what I said? My qualification was on the steal attempt, a balk and WP or D3K where the nonforced runner makes a base because of the steal and the batter makes first on he ball or D3K. I was then told on a steal with a nonforced runner enforce the balk. I was mearly trying to show that isn't always true.

[Rich Ives]

Isn't that what I said? My qualification was on the steal attempt, a balk and WP or D3K where the nonforced runner makes a base because of the steal and the batter makes first on he ball or D3K. I was then told on a steal with a nonforced runner enforce the balk. I was mearly trying to show that isn't always true.

Read the MLBUM sruff a few times. A steal attempt with a balk is not the same as a WP/PB with a balk and is treated differently.

[mstaylor]

I think we are saying the same thing but at too darn stuborn to realize it. My point is if you have a balk, a R2 stealing and a WP for ball four or a D3K and the BR makes first and the stealing R2 makes third, ignore the balk. If all that doesn't happen then enforce the balk and keep the batter there with the same count.

I really do believe we are together on this.

[Matt. L.]

Was wondering if anyone watched Sunday's game, May 1 - Orioles @ White Sox?

Top of the 1st, with 1 out, Gavin Floyd on the mound with Derrek Lee at bat, home plate umpire Cory Blaser called a balk on Floyd.

I wasn't so sure it was a balk as Floyd stepped away from the pitching rubber with his pivot foot then turned his shoulder and took the ball out of his glove (almost at the same time). It's a 50-50 but, I wouldn't call it...what do you guys think?