How Did I Handle This?

[Mudder]

16-18 yrd old rec ball, playoffs. In plate meeting, visiting coach emphatically asks us to watch for malicious contact on the bases as the playoffs have been very chippy. We said we'd watch for it.

R1, I'm BU in B, 2 out, 2 strikes on the batter, he swings and misses, ball goes to the backstop, and batter is off to 1B, PU (does not a very loud voice at the best of times), "kind off" puts up his arms maybe half way, and I'm almost sure he yells foul, although I did not hear the bat hit the ball, which is irrelevant. Batter is very fast. Since the PU did not repeat the foul call emphatically and immediately, and becasue I was not 100% sure, and did not kill it at that point, the catcher picks up the loose ball and throws to 1B.

I see the batter about 10 feet from 1B start to slow down a bit, so I figure he realizes its foul, before he reaches 1B, I turn to look at PU to look for re-affirmation of the foul call, which he does, I then turn back to look at 1B and F3 who just caught the ball, rolling on the ground in pain. I never saw what happened, neither did the PU, I guess we both realized it was foul, and the batter appeared to be slowing down on his run to 1B and we both took our eyes off first base..

F3 got spiked just above the achilles tendon. Defensive manager starts screaming he wants an ejection, and he warned us about this at the plate meeting. I start off on the runner, give him a warning, as I did not see where F3 was set up as I did not see the play, so I cannot eject. Runner says F3 was blocking the bag, and he says it was not a foul ball, and that what the PU heard was something loose inside the bat, that whenever you swing and miss it sounds like bat hitting the ball.

Long story short, I argue I cannot eject for something I not see, in addition in the back of my mind I'm thinking the offensive team only had 9 players, and this is a league I seldom work for, but hope to get more work from, so I'm hesitant, and if I eject, its game over, and I don't want this to blow up with league office, being a playoff game and all, and being my first game with this association.

Thoughts?

[cyclonehokiece]

I agree on the mantra that you cannot eject for what you cannot see, especially on something like this where intent has to be observed. Remember, MC goes above "normal" contact, so an umpire must observe that there is an intent to injure. Also, good job on keeping the foul call. It doesn't matter if it is foul or not, once it is called foul, it is forever foul.

Also, never be hesitant to eject if they only have 9 players, that is that team's problem. If someone needs to go, they go, end of story. Also, playoff game does not matter. What is an ejectable offense in the first game of the season (MC) is also ejectable in the playoffs, no ifs and or buts. And let the chips fall where they may on getting more work. If you work hard, they will see who your are.

[mstaylor]

The biggest problem was looking away from the play. Even if you think it's foul, stay with the play to see what happens. That way if it wasn't foul you know what happened at first. Watch the play, then look back to confirm the foul call, that way you see the crap at first. I agree that number of players or whether it a play-off or not is irrelevant, if the knucklehead is out there trying to hurt players, dump him.

[Dragon29]

The biggest problem was looking away from the play.

This - exactly.

If you had seen what happened, there would have been no situation. It either was or wasnt MC and you go from there. Your PU wasn't helping you by making such a weak Foul call, but keeping your eye on the ball (& therefore any play in which the ball is involved) is paramount.

I agree that type of game, # of players, etc... has nothing to do with how you should rule.

[renegadewolf]

If you have no idea what your partner called on a play, assume everything is live and let it play out. There will be opertunity to fix it afterwards. In your case here, as you weren't watching the play you are going to have to tell the coach you didn't see it. Just be sure to give him plenty of rope because he is going to be pissed and rightly so. This doesn't mean he has the right to be abusive but you messed up in this case and there is nothing worse than making an ejection because of something you did (or didn't do)

[Mr Umpire]

If you have no idea what your partner called on a play, assume everything is live and let it play out. There will be opertunity to fix it afterwards. In your case here, as you weren't watching the play you are going to have to tell the coach you didn't see it. Just be sure to give him plenty of rope because he is going to be pissed and rightly so. This doesn't mean he has the right to be abusive but you messed up in this case and there is nothing worse than making an ejection because of something you did (or didn't do)

I agreed right up until the "plenty of rope". He gets no more rope than any other even if the umpire does or does not see the play and judges it not malicious. He has his bounds regardless of what he thinks of what happened.

[mstaylor]

I think he means he gets to talk longer than normal. What he doesn't get to do is escalate his language or actions.

[Mr Umpire]

I think he means he gets to talk longer than normal. What he doesn't get to do is escalate his language or actions.

Still don't agree with it. Tend to his player if need be but that is it.

[mstaylor]

What I let the coach do or say is a feel thing. Every umpire will handle situations differently. They may handle the same type of situation differently each time. There are no absolutes in game management. Hell, we had an ejection in a VB match today. That's unheard of in VB.

[Jocko]

I think he means he gets to talk longer than normal. What he doesn't get to do is escalate his language or actions.

Still don't agree with it. Tend to his player if need be but that is it.

When you become a spectator or drop the ball, and something happens that you miss, you should be careful not to have a hair trigger. Give him a little latitude. It's not his fault you effed up, and he has an injured player on a play where he may or may not have a legit argument for MC. He still has boundaries, but you bought the sh*tstorm. Just like a call you kick, you gotta own it.

[Mr Umpire]

I think he means he gets to talk longer than normal. What he doesn't get to do is escalate his language or actions.

Still don't agree with it. Tend to his player if need be but that is it.

When you become a spectator or drop the ball, and something happens that you miss, you should be careful not to have a hair trigger. Give him a little latitude. It's not his fault you effed up, and he has an injured player on a play where he may or may not have a legit argument for MC. He still has boundaries, but you bought the sh*tstorm. Just like a call you kick, you gotta own it.

Owning the screw up does not allow for more abuse of any kind. The boundaries don't change. If he gets more room, the other one will think he should get that same room. Or, this guy will expect it again the next time he thinks you screwed up? Easier to be consistent than to leave doubt or appear to be a welcome mat.

Also, nothing in the OP suggests he screwed up. He didn't see it but that doesn't mean it would have been any different if he did. The results may have been the same and F3 may have very well got in the way. This may be F3's fault and the coach has no room to talk but better coach his players. No one knows so why give more room when there may not be any room deserved.

Easier to be consistent.

[mstaylor]

I hear what you are saying, I understand that everyone handles things their own way. I also agree that limits are limits. Where we are disagreeing is sometimes you will let them have a little more discussion than usual, not more animated, not louder, simply longer.

[Jocko]

There was most definitely a screw up, or there would be zero reason for this discussion. Someone took their eyes off the play. If he had seen it, he would have absolute judgement on the play. Anytime you have to eat crow and tell a coach you didn't see it, you screwed up. Period. There's no excuse for not watching the entire play short of injury. If he wrenched a knee or turned an ankle, I can see it. Fair/foul unsurety? Play it out. Easy enough to fix.

[Forest Ump]

1

[Forest Ump]

I hear what you are saying, I understand that everyone handles things their own way. I also agree that limits are limits. Where we are disagreeing is sometimes you will let them have a little more discussion than usual, not more animated, not louder, simply longer.

+1

(Sorry for the multiple post, can't get my computer to obey me this morning)