Composite Bat Question

[Chance]

I understand that BBCOR will take effect for the 2012 season and until then everything must be BESR certified. However I guess im a little confused after reading on the NFHS website their list of approved composite bats, which are also meet ABI. Is this done just for certain areas who have adobted different regualtions this year or do all BESR bats also have to be meet the ABI procedure?

[TX-UIC]

Just the composite ones... the all aluminum bats that are BESR are good to go..

[Forest Ump]

Check with your association about this. This seems to be the first order of business in our meetings. All alluminum bats must be BBCOR in California for 2011. No composite bats are allowed unless they are on the waiver list. The California information is located here http://www.cifstate.org/ The waiver list looks daunting but it really boils down to just seven bats.

[Umpire in Chief]

There will be a lot of confusion about this and I wouldn't doubt another lawsuit by the bat companies to delay it.

[Chance]

Im looking through my latest Eastbay catalog and the descriptions on the bats vary to the point of confusion. Some say NFHS approved, others BESR certified, and a few BBCOR. Nothing at all about ABI on the composite barrel bats. Which is my question, has anyone seen any of these ABI composites that are legal? How are they marked? A BESR silkscreen as well as an ABI silkscreen?

[mstaylor]

Im looking through my latest Eastbay catalog and the descriptions on the bats vary to the point of confusion. Some say NFHS approved, others BESR certified, and a few BBCOR. Nothing at all about ABI on the composite barrel bats. Which is my question, has anyone seen any of these ABI composites that are legal? How are they marked? A BESR silkscreen as well as an ABI silkscreen?

What is ABI?

[LeoDev]

Im looking through my latest Eastbay catalog and the descriptions on the bats vary to the point of confusion. Some say NFHS approved, others BESR certified, and a few BBCOR. Nothing at all about ABI on the composite barrel bats. Which is my question, has anyone seen any of these ABI composites that are legal? How are they marked? A BESR silkscreen as well as an ABI silkscreen?

What is ABI?

From a thread on the NFHS site, I think that ABI stands for "accelerated break-in".

[Umpete]

This is the way I understand it:

1. Any BBCOR bat is approved for use in 2011 (aluminum or composite)
2. Any aluminum BESR bat is approved for 2011.
3. Any composite BESR bat is NOT approved for 2011 unless:
   • The manufacturer receives a waiver by demonstrating the bat meets ABI

Approved BESR Composite bats will not have an ABI stamp. The bat will simply be placed on the waiver list.

[hckyosgood30]

This is a step in the right direction with BBCOR b/c I know last year I educated my unit on how to check for altered/illegal bat. However this transition year will be hard. Guys will have to either memorize or carry the bat list. However even though BBCOR is a step in the right direct you still have to know how to check for an altered bat. I know at least 3 companies that are selling BESR cert bats that i.e. the Demarini CF-4 that has been shaved and rolled selling for $500. You still have to know what to look for. This will deter most, but not all parents and kids from trying to shave/roll their bats. Here in Cali its simple BBCOR for aluminum, only 7 composite bats on the "BESR ok list". So keep your eyes open for not only a new silkscreen sticker, but everything we've been taught on how to catch illegal bats.

just me $0.02

[Astrosdawg07]

This is a step in the right direction with BBCOR b/c I know last year I educated my unit on how to check for altered/illegal bat. However this transition year will be hard. Guys will have to either memorize or carry the bat list. However even though BBCOR is a step in the right direct you still have to know how to check for an altered bat. I know at least 3 companies that are selling BESR cert bats that i.e. the Demarini CF-4 that has been shaved and rolled selling for $500. You still have to know what to look for. This will deter most, but not all parents and kids from trying to shave/roll their bats. Here in Cali its simple BBCOR for aluminum, only 7 composite bats on the "BESR ok list". So keep your eyes open for not only a new silkscreen sticker, but everything we've been taught on how to catch illegal bats.

just me $0.02

I would love to see the information you teach for detecting altered/rolled bats.

[JaxRolo]

This is a step in the right direction with BBCOR b/c I know last year I educated my unit on how to check for altered/illegal bat. However this transition year will be hard. Guys will have to either memorize or carry the bat list. However even though BBCOR is a step in the right direct you still have to know how to check for an altered bat. I know at least 3 companies that are selling BESR cert bats that i.e. the Demarini CF-4 that has been shaved and rolled selling for $500. You still have to know what to look for. This will deter most, but not all parents and kids from trying to shave/roll their bats. Here in Cali its simple BBCOR for aluminum, only 7 composite bats on the "BESR ok list". So keep your eyes open for not only a new silkscreen sticker, but everything we've been taught on how to catch illegal bats.

just me $0.02

I would love to see the information you teach for detecting altered/rolled bats.

Me too. Plus how much time do you spend looking at bats and helmets?

[hckyosgood30]

Astro and Jax,

I can break down a dugout in 5 minutes each. However I also was a Manager for a large sporting goods store for 4 years. My job was to train guys in general sporting goods sales, and equipment. So I was able to get alot of product knowledge from the coaches, retail, athlete, and umpire side. If you know what your looking for and have the product knowledge its fairly quick. Usually when i work with a guy that knows i know the gear he'll take hats and i'll take bats. As for the info it's rather hard to give it justice over the internet. But here are the high lights.

A. 2 3/4 or under 31" is illegal they don't make them anymore.... you'll have kids try to bring in -5 that they reprint on.

B. Check the hindge of all 2 piece bats. If you can move them or if they have "fat cracks/stretch marks" near the handle and there's a gap throw it out.

C. the usual flat spots and cracks.

D. the cap, if it spins or is loose or reglued... throw it out

E. Biggest thing is the sound. If during a game a kid hits one and it sounds like a you just hit a tennis ball with a wet newspaper... recheck the bat.... that' your biggest clue.

I have cut aways and other things that i show my group i actually will bring in illegal bats as examples. However i hope this helps you guys out a little bit.

Also here is the list of BESR comp bats grandfathered in so far..... dont' worry there's only 7.

Demarini CF4, Demarini Vendetta comp.... *note i don't know how since it has a squared handle*

Combat B1 both regular and signature, Combat B2

TPX Dynasty comp, TPX Triton

[Majordave]

hckyosgood30,

How about you take some pics, make some notes and make a powerpoint or some other presentation media that can be shared on your illegal bat presentation by email? Then some of us (not me, unfortunately, due to where I am right now) can use that to make presentations to their HS associations. I did this a few years ago with HS Balks and made a presentation on powerpoint. It helped with training considerably.

Before any of you ask me for them I am not at home and the PC where these files were stored is not operational. Sorry. I would and have shared them in the past so maybe someone on here still has them and can share.

Who knows, you might get famous!

My two cents......

Astro and Jax,

I can break down a dugout in 5 minutes each. However I also was a Manager for a large sporting goods store for 4 years. My job was to train guys in general sporting goods sales, and equipment. So I was able to get alot of product knowledge from the coaches, retail, athlete, and umpire side. If you know what your looking for and have the product knowledge its fairly quick. Usually when i work with a guy that knows i know the gear he'll take hats and i'll take bats. As for the info it's rather hard to give it justice over the internet. But here are the high lights.

A. 2 3/4 or under 31" is illegal they don't make them anymore.... you'll have kids try to bring in -5 that they reprint on.

B. Check the hindge of all 2 piece bats. If you can move them or if they have "fat cracks/stretch marks" near the handle and there's a gap throw it out.

C. the usual flat spots and cracks.

D. the cap, if it spins or is loose or reglued... throw it out

E. Biggest thing is the sound. If during a game a kid hits one and it sounds like a you just hit a tennis ball with a wet newspaper... recheck the bat.... that' your biggest clue.

I have cut aways and other things that i show my group i actually will bring in illegal bats as examples. However i hope this helps you guys out a little bit.

Also here is the list of BESR comp bats grandfathered in so far..... dont' worry there's only 7.

Demarini CF4, Demarini Vendetta comp.... *note i don't know how since it has a squared handle*

Combat B1 both regular and signature, Combat B2

TPX Dynasty comp, TPX Triton

[mstaylor]

If somebody has the pictures and notes, send them to me and can make it up.

[widac]

This is what they're doing here in Oregon.

10-11LegalBatsMemo.pdf

[hckyosgood30]

I like that fact that they're trying to educate the coaches, AD's, parents and players. I also like the fact that the coaches should have the bat list at the field. I just don't like the list. BBCOR fine, wood bats fine, and grandfathered in list ok... However all of the others seem to vary state to state, and section to section. This to me is what is making people go nuts! Parents call monkeysports here in Cali and get different info on whats legal vs. calling hitrunscore.com from NYC. Instead of all of these state adoptions lets just say NFHS and move on please! It would make life simplier for everyone involved. Yea its going to be a pain in the butt this year. But why add to the frustration by having X legal in Y but not in Z. IMHO this is and will continue to be the largest complaint we'll face... inconsistency. From state to state, section to section, umpire to umpire.

just my $0.02