Babe Ruth Clarification

[soapbox]

Over the last week, I've found myself working a Babe Ruth Tournament on the big diamond for 13/14 year olds. I'm not quite sure what rule set it follows, but while doing regular season games for Babe Ruth, I was told by my assigner that the rules are MLB (but no DH). Ok, I won't pretend that I've sat down and read thru the MLB rule book, but as far as conferences and so on, in the league no problem.

Last night I was BU. I won't claim to be God's gift to the baseball field, but love it, take it seriously, and think overall, I do a good job. With that said, my partners for the most part have lacked certain skills. Last night, a kid hits a shot, no fence, and comes in to score. On his way to the plate, F2 is up the 3B line about 4 feet. Ball on the way, but F2 doesn't have, kid barrels over F2. Everybody stands, but big time hit. My partner says nothing. Run scores. I'm annoyed, I don't want to step in and make a call, but between innings, I mention to the hitter that in most rule sets, we have a slide or avoid and in my opinion, he lowered his shoulder and that's a no no.

Coach asked me what I said to his player. Nicely, I told him if I was on the plate, there would have been a much different result on that with an out and would have ended in MC and an eject. Coach (who in 3 games has now had way too many rules discussions) told me if I dumped his kid, I would have dumped him also. Ok, coach! My partner called me over and said he said nothing because he had obstuction. I said ok, but you didn't signal or verbalize and OUR responsibility is to protect the children. I told him that MC overrides any obstruction call.

My question is this, in Babe Ruth (which I clearly am not clear on), can players run over F2 in this manner since my assigner says they play MLB rules. Secondly, if I see something, that clearly would be an automatic eject in H.S even though I'm BU, do I and should I make the call. I certainly don't want to show up my partner.

[BT_Blue]

Babe Ruth does play OBR with safety modifications such as YOU CAN NOT BLOW UP AN OPPOSING PLAYER! This would definitely be MC in anything lower then pro ball and if king knucklehead wants to go to then he can.

As for OBS, a fielder can be in the way "if he is in the imminent act of fielding a ball or a throw" so doublely kicked by your partner.

Now in terms of running the kid, I think you can since this is a safety issue. But make sure you give your partner a chance to do the right thing. Would probably wait for the play to end (which it will because the DHC will probably want to talk to your partner) get together and inform your partner that BR needs to go. If he doesn't do it then you will. End discussion and inform OHC of ej and then watch the fun fly cause evidently he wants to go too.

Oh and you are already throwing your partner under the bus by having this little "things would be different if" discussion with the coach.

[SoCal Lurker]

Over the last week, I've found myself working a Babe Ruth Tournament on the big diamond for 13/14 year olds. I'm not quite sure what rule set it follows, but while doing regular season games for Babe Ruth, I was told by my assigner that the rules are MLB (but no DH). Ok, I won't pretend that I've sat down and read thru the MLB rule book, but as far as conferences and so on, in the league no problem.

May I humbly suggest this is a problem?

Umpires on this board regularly complain that coaches don't know the rules. I can't imagine refereeing or umpiring without being clear on what ruleset was being applied and actually knowing the ruleset.

[Rich Ives]

Babe Ruth does play OBR with safety modifications such as YOU CAN NOT BLOW UP AN OPPOSING PLAYER! This would definitely be MC in anything lower then pro ball and if king knucklehead wants to go to then he can.

As for OBS, a fielder can be in the way "if he is in the imminent act of fielding a ball or a throw" so doublely kicked by your partner.

Now in terms of running the kid, I think you can since this is a safety issue. But make sure you give your partner a chance to do the right thing. Would probably wait for the play to end (which it will because the DHC will probably want to talk to your partner) get together and inform your partner that BR needs to go. If he doesn't do it then you will. End discussion and inform OHC of ej and then watch the fun fly cause evidently he wants to go too.

Oh and you are already throwing your partner under the bus by having this little "things would be different if" discussion with the coach.

I haven't seen a recent BR rule book but at one time they had a no crashing the catcher (catcher, not just any fielder) rule

As for OBS - the throw in flight must be close enough that the fielder has to be where he is. Just being on the way isn't enough.

[soapbox]

As I stated above, my assigner has told me they employ NL Rules of MLB when playing. As I've stated, I find it hard to believe in a youth game that there isn't wording on MC. Where I work, and I'll bet just about every other umpire, there are modifications to the modifications. We work all over and all leagues and we clear this up at our plate meeting. As far as throwing my partner under a bus, that would've been done had I ejected. I spoke to the player matter of factly. Coach as usual blew it up. I read, stay informed, post, and do what's necessary to do my job well. I wonder if you've ever done a game where you've made a ruling and were informed by both teams that they let this or that go. Or we don't adhere to this H.S rule. Even our local LL modify. It has become nearly impossible to do games with a clear understanding as to the rules. It would be nice if leagues posted on line, but 95% don't. It's just the way it is here.

[Rich Ives]

There are NO NL or AL rules in MLB,. The rules are the same. The DH is optional and the NL teams opt to not use one and the AL teams opt to use one.

[soapbox]

Rich, it's just the way they explain it. I think we can all agree that's a haha.

[Umpete]

I haven't seen a recent BR rule book but at one time they had a no crashing the catcher (catcher, not just any fielder) rule

As for OBS - the throw in flight must be close enough that the fielder has to be where he is. Just being on the way isn't enough.

I don't have my BR rule book with me, but the wording is along the lines of the runner can't contact the catcher with the obvious intent of dislodging the ball. No specific MC mention in BR - deal with it as Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

Rich, I like your explanation for OBS. I'll remember that. :nod:

[mstaylor]

As I stated above, my assigner has told me they employ NL Rules of MLB when playing. As I've stated, I find it hard to believe in a youth game that there isn't wording on MC. Where I work, and I'll bet just about every other umpire, there are modifications to the modifications. We work all over and all leagues and we clear this up at our plate meeting. As far as throwing my partner under a bus, that would've been done had I ejected. I spoke to the player matter of factly. Coach as usual blew it up. I read, stay informed, post, and do what's necessary to do my job well. I wonder if you've ever done a game where you've made a ruling and were informed by both teams that they let this or that go. Or we don't adhere to this H.S rule. Even our local LL modify. It has become nearly impossible to do games with a clear understanding as to the rules. It would be nice if leagues posted on line, but 95% don't. It's just the way it is here.

I tell coaches if you have local rules that change the ruleset as I know it then give me a copy of the changes. Not written down? No change!

[Replacematt]

As far as throwing my partner under a bus, that would've been done had I ejected. I spoke to the player matter of factly.

There's more than one way to throw a partner under a bus. You only recognized one and did another. Do not have a conversation with a player that indicates you would have done something differently.

[Jocko]

When it happens, get together and discuss it. MC overrules OBS. Tell him so. Maybe he knows less about the ruleset than you do. Every level below MiLB has a MC type clause. Tell your HP it's auto EJ and let him call it, since it was his in the 1st place. His mistake. YOUR mistake was talking to anyone but your partner about what you would have done.

[Rich Ives]

When it happens, get together and discuss it. MC overrules OBS. Tell him so. Maybe he knows less about the ruleset than you do. Every level below MiLB has a MC type clause. Tell your HP it's auto EJ and let him call it, since it was his in the 1st place. His mistake. YOUR mistake was talking to anyone but your partner about what you would have done.

A collision in and of itself is not MC. Please don't do anything to reinforce the erroneous belief that it is.

Not every level below MiLB has an MC type clause. Some cover it via UC.

It's judgement in any case.

The result is different depending on the rules also.

e.g. Fielder obstructs runner and runner gets called for MC - runner tagged before he reaches the next base. Under FED MC supercedes and the runner is out and ejected. Under OBR and NCAA the runner is awarded the base and ejected.

[Jocko]

When it happens, get together and discuss it. MC overrules OBS. Tell him so. Maybe he knows less about the ruleset than you do. Every level below MiLB has a MC type clause. Tell your HP it's auto EJ and let him call it, since it was his in the 1st place. His mistake. YOUR mistake was talking to anyone but your partner about what you would have done.

A collision in and of itself is not MC. Please don't do anything to reinforce the erroneous belief that it is.

Not every level below MiLB has an MC type clause. Some cover it via UC.

It's judgement in any case.

The result is different depending on the rules also.

e.g. Fielder obstructs runner and runner gets called for MC - runner tagged before he reaches the next base. Under FED MC supercedes and the runner is out and ejected. Under OBR and NCAA the runner is awarded the base and ejected.

what rule set allows full contact without penalty below MiLB?

[mstaylor]

He isn't saying there is any. What I understand him saying is that contact is not always MC, sometimes contact is just that, contact. Not all youth systems have a straight MC rule, so it covered under UC and as a result may not be an auto out. If you have contact that you would classify as MC, call it and eject if you have that rule to use. If it isn't there then use the UC rule.

[Jocko]

I agree with that. Most contact is incidental. I've only called MC 3x in my career.

[Rich Ives]

When it happens, get together and discuss it. MC overrules OBS. Tell him so. Maybe he knows less about the ruleset than you do. Every level below MiLB has a MC type clause. Tell your HP it's auto EJ and let him call it, since it was his in the 1st place. His mistake. YOUR mistake was talking to anyone but your partner about what you would have done.

A collision in and of itself is not MC. Please don't do anything to reinforce the erroneous belief that it is.

Not every level below MiLB has an MC type clause. Some cover it via UC.

It's judgement in any case.

The result is different depending on the rules also.

e.g. Fielder obstructs runner and runner gets called for MC - runner tagged before he reaches the next base. Under FED MC supercedes and the runner is out and ejected. Under OBR and NCAA the runner is awarded the base and ejected.

what rule set allows full contact without penalty below MiLB?

Where did I say there's no penalty? The guilty party is ejected.

But the obstruction is NOT ignored because it's also a violation AND we do not want fielders inviting collisions to get a cancel-the-advance call.

[mstaylor]

I agree with that. Most contact is incidental. I've only called MC 3x in my career.

I can't say that. If the runner has time to alter and rolls the catcher instead, that's a problem. If the catcher steps in front of him and the runner has no shot at avoiding then it's nothing.

[noumpere]

what rule set allows full contact without penalty below MiLB?

There are at least two leagues around here where they play straight AL rules including crash the catcher and take out the middle infielder. And while some of the players have MiLB experience the general level is below that.

[Jocko]

what rule set allows full contact without penalty below MiLB?

There are at least two leagues around here where they play straight AL rules including crash the catcher and take out the middle infielder. And while some of the players have MiLB experience the general level is below that.

you're talking adults, right? I forgot my mexican men's league is straight MLB rules. They don't routinely kill each other because they have to go to work tomorrow, but it is allowed. Completely forgot that til just now.

[treydawgmt]

Ok, I'm looking online to try to find the Babe Ruth Ruleset, and I can't seem to find it without buying it. (Damn commercialism!) However, I umpire many Crystal Lake Babe Ruth games up here, and they have their ruleset online. I'm guessing yours is VERY similar, since come playoff time they all have to use the same set. Here's the link:

http://www.clbr.org/forms/2011/clbr_rules_2011.pdf

[cookie]

2012 Babe Ruth Rule Book (p. 19)

"CONTACT RULE (ALL DIVISIONS) - If a runner attempting to reach home pate intentionally and maliciously runs into a defensive player in the area of home plate, he will be called out on the play and ejected from the game. The objective of this is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner for the obvious purpose of crashing the defensive fielder, rather than trying to reach home plate. Obviously, this is an umpire's judgement call."