dropped third strike ??

[D62 blue]

i had a strange call today PU . 50/70 LL winter ball , 2 outs R3 on . batter swings at 3k , catcher catches but TRAPS ball on ground , hard for me to see this . i call BR out (raised right hand) , catcher toss ball back to the mound all defense starts to leave the field . OC says to BR "run","run" R3 scores, i look at my BU partner , he is pointing to the ground , i extend my arms (safe mechanic) closed fists , neither of us say anything . the defense is completely in foul ground , clueless . BR continues all the way to third before defense realizes something is going on , neither of us say anything still . DC say F2 caught the ball , partner and i both say "trapped"it coach . BR scores , while the defense re-takes the field . initially i was blocked by F2 , it looked like a catch , BU had a clear look and pointed to the ground . we let the play stand , and defense had to continue . these kids are all from LL majors and have moved up to this new division , which is mostly real b ball . any comments about how to handle this or would you have done something different ? this was definitely a 3rd world kind of play .

marc

Edited October 18, 2010 by D62 blue

[Paperipper17]

That sounds like an absolute cluster...My question here to the more learned guys who will follow is, does BU have the call on this, or do you have to appeal to him? If he has the go-ahead to make the call automatically, I think you handled it well, especially seeing as no one got ejected lol.

Also, did BR start walking towards the dugout? I'm not sure of the rule in LL, at what point after not immediately running to first is he out?

[Guest]

In a sentence, you kicked it.

Once you called the batter out, the inning ended. You then realized an error and tried to pretend nothing happened.

The first thing relevant here is proper mechanics from an uncaught (swinging) third strike.

First, you're going to indicate that you have a swing...if the batter attempts to check his swing but you say he went, you're going to sell this a little more obviously. If you're a pointer, make your normal swinging strike point. If you're a hammer-er, make your normal swinging strike hammer but pay attention to what follows below because you need to act fast and crisp or else your mechanics will confuse everyone.

If you are sure strike 3 was uncaught, after you point or hammer, immediately make a 'safe' sign and verbalize "no catch." That's that.

If you're unsure, step out from the plate away from the catcher and try to establish if the ball is caught or not. You want to do this before you look at your partner because if said partner forgets, by the time you do look down, the catcher will likely be trying to sell a catch and you won't have been able to see for yourself.

As you do this, this is when you want to be making your strike mechanic. If you hammer, I'd advise doing something slightly different, like raising your right arm with an open palm, to indicate something different has happened. If you do determine the ball was caught legally, you can close the fist and snap the out.

Digressing, if you've had a look on the ground and can't decide what happened, by all means, pick up your partner(s) right away.

The most important part to remember here is to not rush the out call, because, especially with runners on base, if you call the should-be BR out too early, you have just made a mistake that cannot be undone.

[spiritumpa]

sounds like you have to slow your mechanics down--if you do not see the ball in the glove you can not call the ball in the glove--make sure your eyes see what you are going to say happened 1-see the play(every thing from the begining to the end)2-digest what you saw(every thing from begining to end) 3-make the call(with relationship to the rules) if you follow these steps you can not make a call fast(hast makes wast)--remember "its nothing till I call it"

[noumpere]

any comments about how to handle this or would you have done something different ?

Once you called the batter out, you have two choices:

1) Keep the out

2) Decide what would have happened and enforce that

Choice 2 is NOT an option in all leagues. Even where it is, having the batter advance to third is not likely what would have happened. The most likely outcome, given that F2 gloved tha ball, is that the batter would have been out anyway.

[D62 blue]

In a sentence, you kicked it.

Once you called the batter out, the inning ended. You then realized an error and tried to pretend nothing happened.

The first thing relevant here is proper mechanics from an uncaught (swinging) third strike.

First, you're going to indicate that you have a swing...if the batter attempts to check his swing but you say he went, you're going to sell this a little more obviously. If you're a pointer, make your normal swinging strike point. If you're a hammer-er, make your normal swinging strike hammer but pay attention to what follows below because you need to act fast and crisp or else your mechanics will confuse everyone.

If you are sure strike 3 was uncaught, after you point or hammer, immediately make a 'safe' sign and verbalize "no catch." That's that.

If you're unsure, step out from the plate away from the catcher and try to establish if the ball is caught or not. You want to do this before you look at your partner because if said partner forgets, by the time you do look down, the catcher will likely be trying to sell a catch and you won't have been able to see for yourself.

As you do this, this is when you want to be making your strike mechanic. If you hammer, I'd advise doing something slightly different, like raising your right arm with an open palm, to indicate something different has happened. If you do determine the ball was caught legally, you can close the fist and snap the out.

Digressing, if you've had a look on the ground and can't decide what happened, by all means, pick up your partner(s) right away.

The most important part to remember here is to not rush the out call, because, especially with runners on base, if you call the should-be BR out too early, you have just made a mistake that cannot be undone.

all good info , this is why i like to work winter ball , when nothing counts .

it is good on the field training , to work on these types of situations . so when it does count im all the better for the gm .

marc

Edited October 18, 2010 by D62 blue

[Umpire in Chief]

all good info , this is why i like to work winter ball , when nothing counts .

it is good on the field training , to work on these types of situations . so when it does count im all the better for the gm .

marc

This is the best attitude to have about fall/winter ball Marc. I take this time to experiment like new strike mechanics, new plate stance, work on my foot work, concentrate on my timing and make the adjustments when there is no pressure.

[jnazz]

You called him out --- he's out!

9.02 (a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, IS FINAL. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgement decisions.

We had your situation occur in a BC Provincial Championships in 2009 which ended up with an upheld protest. So, every clinic in our province now deals with this exact situation.