Shoulder Patches

[jnazz]

I am going to be ordering some legion umpire patches and flag patches. I am just wondering if there is a standard as to where they should sit on the shoulder. Is there a certain height off the trim of the sleeve? If so, is it to the bottom edge of the patch or the center?

[BrianC14]

I am going to be ordering some legion umpire patches and flag patches. I am just wondering if there is a standard as to where they should sit on the shoulder. Is there a certain height off the trim of the sleeve? If so, is it to the bottom edge of the patch or the center?

Check the Honig's website - I'm pretty sure they give some measurements on that.

One more thing: if you plan to put a flag patch on one of the sleeves, please make sure you buy the flag patch that has the field of stars at the leading (forward) edge.

Example: if the flag patch will be placed on the left sleeve, the blue field should be at the upper left corner when viewed. The oppposite is the case if the flag patch is placed on the right sleeve; i.e., the field of stars would be on the upper right corner.

Edited August 5, 2010 by BrianC14

[kcfan102]

http://www.honigs.com/pdf/numberplacement.pdf

http://www.ump-attire.com/service/fittingroom/numbers-patches.html

It's pretty standard that you measure from the top of the sleeve cuff to the bottom of your patch and make sure this is a one inch gap. Make sure the patch in centered on the crease of the sleeve and attach it!

If you're getting flags for Legion ball make sure you know where they want the flag. Around here they want the flag above the numbers on the RIGHT sleeve. You'd have to buy a more unconventional patch that has the union on the right instead of the left and the Legion patch on the right.. Check with your UIC though. Legion guys can be pretty picky about the flag and their patch, with good reason.

[jnazz]

Ok, all my patches are in. American Legion Umpire Patches, American Flag (right hand), and Canadian Flag. Where my problem occurs is attatching the Canadian flag. Both American and Canadian flags are 3" x 2". So, all you fashionistas out there, where should I attatch them. I've emailed American Legion Baseball and Flag and Emblem (supplier of the Legion patches) with no reply.

[mstaylor]

Why are you putting a Canadien flag on an American Legion shirt. If they both belong on the same sleeve the US on top, skip an inch then Canadian.

[jnazz]

Why are you putting a Canadien flag on an American Legion shirt. If they both belong on the same sleeve the US on top, skip an inch then Canadian.

Because I'm Canadian.

[semper_fi_72]

Because I'm Canadian.

If they do not call for the Canadian Flag then you do not put it on the uniform.

If the U.S. Flag us required by Association/League then that is what is put on.

If it is not a requirement do not put it on.

I am Retired Marine Corps, but I do not add a Marine Corps Flag to my uniforms to show it. Tattoo on right forearm does that anyway :shrug:

[jnazz]

If they do not call for the Canadian Flag then you do not put it on the uniform.

If the U.S. Flag us required by Association/League then that is what is put on.

If it is not a requirement do not put it on.

I am Retired Marine Corps, but I do not add a Marine Corps Flag to my uniforms to show it. Tattoo on right forearm does that anyway

The legion leagues I work for allow the Canadian teams to wear Canadian flags on their uniforms (not any US flag) and our UIC has told me that in the past we have been allowed to wear both. But we had to have both (not just the Canadian flag).

[semper_fi_72]

The legion leagues I work for allow the Canadian teams to wear Canadian flags on their uniforms (not any US flag) and our UIC has told me that in the past we have been allowed to wear both. But we had to have both (not just the Canadian flag).

Then as recommended US Flag on top (Proper Flag Etiquette) then a space (1/2 to 1 inch, see what looks the best) and then Canadian Flag below.

As mentioned, please ensure you use the appropriate flags depending on them going on right or left sleeve.

[kcfan102]

I wouldn't out any flags on unless it's required.

[mstaylor]

I never realized there was Canadian American Legion. Souns like an oxymoron to me.

[jnazz]

I never realized there was Canadian American Legion. Souns like an oxymoron to me.

Just Canadian teams in American Legion Leagues. We have Cranbrook and Trail (British Columbia) in the North Idaho AAA league and Trail in the Spokane North AA and A league.

[kcfan102]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't it against flag etiquette to have two together?

Edited September 11, 2010 by kcfan102

[semper_fi_72]

Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't it against flag etiquette to have two together?

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

Not as long as they are displayed properly.

[kylejt]

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

It's been questioned whether we, as umpires, should be wearing the flag at all. Per regulations, we should not, but I think it's a good thing. Just remember that it always goes on top of any other logo/flag/emblem.

As for wearing the star field forward, that's reserved for the military, as they should always be seen as moving forward. For us, it's appropriate either way.

[Kevin Finnerty]

We should NOT be wearing the flag on our umpiring uniforms. They are athletic uniforms.

It's in plain English ... just like most of the rest of the flag code that people constantly ignore.

[semper_fi_72]

As for wearing the star field forward, that's reserved for the military, as they should always be seen as moving forward. For us, it's appropriate either way.

Wrong!!!!!!!

It is worn as if your always facing into the wind.

That stands for any flag.

The star field always goes to the front when placing it on a sleeve.

If placed on the back of your shirt, the star field is placed to the left.

[semper_fi_72]

We should NOT be wearing the flag on our umpiring uniforms. They are athletic uniforms.

It's in plain English ... just like most of the rest of the flag code that people constantly ignore.

I disagree.

Umpire uniforms are not athletic uniforms.

They are uniforms that indicate a position of authority such as fire and police and therefore wearing a flag to show patriotism is appropriate.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I disagree.

Umpire uniforms are not athletic uniforms.

They are uniforms that indicate a position of authority such as fire and police and therefore wearing a flag to show patriotism is appropriate.

We're wearing golf shirts, ballcaps and football shoes, for crying out loud. The only thing not resembling an athletic uniform is the slacks.

That is preposterous in my opinion. Putting us up there is a major stretch---especially for a military man. No umpire takes on anywhere near the level of service of a firefighter, military or law enforcement figure. We're watching ballgames, and occasionally making sure they don't get out of hand. Maybe we're also helping keep some kids pointed in the right direction and off the streets, but come on. You can't bend the code to your liking. That's for religion.

...

[Kevin Finnerty]

Here are some all-time flag code stretching greats:

[kcfan102]

Firefighters, police officers, and other members of the emergency field; along with soldiers sacrifice way more than umpires do.

We sacrifice our weekends sometimes, a lot of times we sacrifice nothing at all.

I think wearing the flag on your shoulder is an honor, an honor reserved for those who sacrifice and risk everything.

That does NOT include an umpire, referee, judge, or your boss (because he has an authority position too).

[Kevin Finnerty]

Firefighters, police officers, and other members of the emergency field; along with soldiers sacrifice way more than umpires do.

We sacrifice our weekends sometimes, a lot of times we sacrifice nothing at all.

I think wearing the flag on your shoulder is an honor, an honor reserved for those who sacrifice and risk everything.

That does NOT include an umpire, referee, judge, or your boss (because he has an authority position too).

All right everybody, try putting it better than that!

Well, Brandon ...

...

[semper_fi_72]

I think one thing is being missed here.

A Embroidered Patch of the Flag is not a Flag.

If it was a Flag, you would never wash the shirt it was on and you would be properly disposing of it, through burning, when it was no longer serviceable.

Flag Etiquette only applies to a "Flag" that is designed to be flown from a mast, pole or staff .

Patches, Decals, Banners, etc are not flags.

If they were, I guess I would have to classify my tattoo of a U.S. Flag and American Bald Eagle as a "Flag" and would eventually need to be burned to dispose of properly.

The main reason Military personnel wear Flag Patches is to identify which country they are from. This was necessary due to Multi-National Forces conducting combat operations together. Prior to Desert Shield/Storm we did not wear them on our BDUs.

Several Associations I work for do not require any flag patches but they also do not discourage anyone from displaying their Patriotism as long as it is positioned and worn properly.

I would also say the wearing of such a patch, is one of those rights that is certainly covered in several Amendments to the Constitution of the United Sates of America.

God Bless America - Never Surrender

Pray for the victims and families of 9/11 - Never Forget

Support our Troops

[JaxRolo]

I think one thing is being missed here.

A Embroidered Patch of the Flag is not a Flag.

If it was a Flag, you would never wash the shirt it was on and you would be properly disposing of it, through burning, when it was no longer serviceable.

Flag Etiquette only applies to a "Flag" that is designed to be flown from a mast, pole or staff .

Patches, Decals, Banners, etc are not flags.

If they were, I guess I would have to classify my tattoo of a U.S. Flag and American Bald Eagle as a "Flag" and would eventually need to be burned to dispose of properly.

The main reason Military personnel wear Flag Patches is to identify which country they are from. This was necessary due to Multi-National Forces conducting combat operations together. Prior to Desert Shield/Storm we did not wear them on our BDUs.

Several Associations I work for do not require any flag patches but they also do not discourage anyone from displaying their Patriotism as long as it is positioned and worn properly.

I would also say the wearing of such a patch, is one of those rights that is certainly covered in several Amendments to the Constitution of the United Sates of America.

God Bless America - Never Surrender

Pray for the victims and families of 9/11 - Never Forget

Support our Troops

Very Well Said! :notworthy:

[kcfan102]

Patches, Decals, Banners, etc are not flags.

Yes they are. According to the United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1 Section 3:

The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But, code is code. If you choose to ignore it, fine, to be honest, there are bigger fish to fry than one showing their patriotism "properly". If it wasn't against, code, you best believe I'd have it on every shirt I had, I think a lot of people would. But since I have been educated about the code, at my house, there is pretty much one thing that should have 50 stars and 13 stripes, and it better be on a flag pole.

Now here is where things may get tricky: The American Legion. I assume the American Legion is a patriotic organization (Along with the Boy Scouts and Red Cross...). According to Section 8 letter "J" of the code, it states:

"No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations

Since many teams are sponsored by an American Legion post (Post 21 and post 499 in my area have teams), would these teams be considered members? Or not? If they are considered members, would that make flags they wear legal?

But indeed, God bless this country, as well as those who fight to make it a better place. And you know what? God bless our Canadian friends too while we're at it.