Illegal Players -- TSSAA Middle School Tourney

[bpate]

Wow,

This was relayed to me from a coworker.

Team A is 4 games into a TSSAA middle school tourney when suddenly 2 new players show up. They are listed on the roster that was turned in before the tournmament began but clearly hadn't played in any of the previous games. (Crips White Uniforms, obviously older, not recognized as playing previously.) Team B complains before the game starts that the kids are not on the team and are too old but no proof is offered up so they are allowed to participate. Just before game begins, Team A has a parent pull his child off of the field and states in a loud voice "My child will not be a part of this, we don't know who those 2 kids are and they have never played with us." Umpire calls coaches together again and demands that coach A come clean. Coach A lowers head in embarrassment and comes clean. Umpire "Ball-Game." Team A's parents leave apologizing to everyone that will listen. I'm mad just thinking about it. Win at all cost I guess. Coworkers guess was that the 2 kids were highschool players that were called after game 3 when pitching limits were exausted.

[scrounge]

Shameful. And I hope there's not a backlash against the parent when it's the coach's fraud that started it all.

[semper_fi_72]

My only question is why is the Umpire getting involved with who is a legal roster player or not?

Shouldn't that be a Tournament Director or School Official issue?

I have never had to deal with a question of someone being eligible to play or not in a tournament or a game.

So any guidance of how this falls on the umpire would be helpful.

Of course it may be a mute point if it is a local rule for the umpire to verify rosters before playing.

[bpate]

Third hand info so I am not 100% sure of the exact events. I know that the tournament director was involved. I know that this ocurred at game time. (Teams were on the field ready for first pitch) I assume that the umpire was involved simply because of the proximity to game time. Also, if the coach turned in a fradulent lineup, I'd assume that the umpire would have a stake in that.

[NoCal Blue]

I echo Semper's remarks.

This sits with the Tourny Director unless specified by house rule.

[Thunderheads]

It's a wonder why kids are so messed up these days!

[catsbackr]

Play the game. Let the tournament director sort out the details.

If the lineup card given to the umpire has the players listed, they are legal to play unless they were ejected prior. Stopping a game to deal with this was the wrong thing to do.

Something like, Coach B claims players are illegal. Umpires verifies players are on the original, submitted roster. "Players are legal, Coach, let's go."

[moblue]

Play the game. Let the tournament director sort out the details.

If the lineup card given to the umpire has the players listed, they are legal to play unless they were ejected prior. Stopping a game to deal with this was the wrong thing to do.

Something like, Coach B claims players are illegal. Umpires verifies players are on the original, submitted roster. "Players are legal, Coach, let's go."

I disagree with you on the last part. I don't think it's the umpire's place to declare a player "legal" to the opposing coach. However, if he comes to me with an issue, he should be (politely) told he needs to take the issue up with the TD.

The only time I have ever declared a player illegal was when coaches were trying to let kids play up several levels. I had one game last year where I had the coaches pull the player off the field. I explained it to the coaches as a liability issue.

[Stan W.]

I exposed an illegal player only once.....and it came out of a BOO situation.........

after ball one, coach asks for time,stating that the current batter was BOO.....called for scorebooks......asked player if his name was Baker or Charlie.......he said no, its Vega.........ummmm....no vega on the roster........

busted......,

I ruled on the BOO....Vega...posing as Charlie was out for BOO........coach called for TD and he forfeited the game and banned Vega from further play in the tourney...

[catsbackr]

Play the game. Let the tournament director sort out the details.

If the lineup card given to the umpire has the players listed, they are legal to play unless they were ejected prior. Stopping a game to deal with this was the wrong thing to do.

Something like, Coach B claims players are illegal. Umpires verifies players are on the original, submitted roster. "Players are legal, Coach, let's go."

I disagree with you on the last part. I don't think it's the umpire's place to declare a player "legal" to the opposing coach. However, if he comes to me with an issue, he should be (politely) told he needs to take the issue up with the TD.

The only time I have ever declared a player illegal was when coaches were trying to let kids play up several levels. I had one game last year where I had the coaches pull the player off the field. I explained it to the coaches as a liability issue.

IF THE PLAYER IS LISTED ON THE ROSTER AND THE ROSTER WAS SUBMITTED BY THE HEAD COACH, THE PLAYER IS LEGAL AS FAR AS WE (UMPIRES) ARE CONCERNED.

[moblue]

I see what you're saying, but at the same time pointing the coach to the TD with a question of eligibility is probably the best thing to do. By doing that you are not ruling on the player's eligibility one way or the other. Let the coach (or an AC) go find the TD and they can discuss it.

[bpate]

Spoke with coworker again. Apparently, the game was about to begin. Pitcher on rubber when "time" was called.

1. Parent pulls kid

2. Coach B goes to talk to umpire

3. Tournament director enters field

4. Coach A "asked" to join the conversation.

4. Umpire to Coach A "Come Clean"

5. Coach comes clean

6. Tournament director declares the forfeit and bans A from further tournament play.

Perhaps the umpire should have kept quite; however, he was probably pizzed off at the situation.

Ultimately, the tournament director was the one calling the shots though.

I also found out that it was indeed high school freshmen that were attempting to play on the middle school team.

Point of the post was more of a "You aint gonna believe this" post and not a rules post. Good discussion on proper umpire "mechanics" though. Perhaps I should have placed it in the Free For All forum.

[catsbackr]

Lord, just don't do middle school baseball. End of problems.