First of the Season

[moblue]

12U travel ball tourney. Concellation (sp?) game, so both teams are headed home afterwards. R1, less than 2 out.

Batter hits a fly ball to center. The ball is caught and the centerfielder tries to throw R1 out as he returns to first. The ball hits off F3's glove and goes out of play. I call time and put R1 on 2B (for some reason thinking he was the BR). OC wants an explanation. I started to give him one but heard someone screaming at me from the dugout. I looked over and it was someone out of uniform holding the scorebook. That doesn't work on my field. I ended up with two coaches on me and had to ask which one of them was the head coach. They told me I had just tossed him. After the TD ended up coming over for some reason we talked about it with my partner, then it finally dawned on me... the fly ball was caught, so the (now) R2 was originally on 1B. The BR was out, so R2 should be R3. I fixed it, we moved on with the game.

This was a perfect example of how when you mess up a play, someone's probably getting tossed. It was also a lesson to me to not work 13 games in a weekend again. At least, don't work Sunday's games after doing 8 Saturday and only getting 4 hours of sleep. This particular game was game 11 of that.

[MPLSMatt]

Quick question: Would you have caught your mistake and fixed it if the coach hadn't flipped on you? I'm sure in the coach's mind, his flipping out got the call fixed.

[scrounge]

Wasn't the HC at the plate conf before the game? You didn't know he was HC? Is it common for all coaches in a 12U game to be in uniform?

[semper_fi_72]

Don't think I ever had a 12U Travel Ball game with a manager in uniform.

As said after the plate meeting you should have known who the Manager was.

You shouldn't have even entained any questions from Coaches. Only the Manager can come out to argue a call or ruling. But you didn't know who that was, so that really was the first error on your part.

I realize you may have been tired and that caused a lack of concentration on your part.

One thing to remember is you accepted the schedule and need to be as professional in game 13 as you are in game 1.

I have done that many games before and I find I even get better towards the end when working quater final thru finals

Better ball makes you work better.

The attatude that both teams were going home should not even come accross your mind. It means something to those teams.

Someone with a scorebook trying to get your attention, especially a manager should not be a automatic ejection.

You didn't even state what they said from the dugout.

If you during your plate meeting you advise managers "If there is a question on a call or a ruling, call time and ensure your request has been granted. You are the only one we will discuss any thing with. Go out to the umpire that made the call. If necessary we will get together to discuss the call. Once the final determination is made that is it unless it is something that is protestable. Are there any questions"?

Not sure I agree with your philosphy that if you make a mistake, someone is getting EJ.

Several errors were made by yourself, your partner, the OCs and the Manager.

If any of them were handled properly you could have prevented the EJ.

EJ when you have to but I think there are a lot of things that can be done, if done properly to keep them in the game.

They EJ themselves and I don't find anything in your Post that warrants a EJ.

[johnnyg08]

12U uniform = cargo shorts

[moblue]

I don't even recall there being a plate meeting for that particular game. The coaches knew who was home and visitor based off of the pool play results, so we didn't have to flip for it. I should have found out who the manager was the first time there was any question over a call and that would have prevented many, many issues right there. As to what was coming out of the dugout, it was someone out of uniform yelling at the TOP of their lungs in a 12U game. That doesn't work with me. They are not at a level yet where they are entitled to give the "entertaining" argument for the audience. They should be teaching the kids what sportsmanship is. The HC actually agreed with his ejection. I was later told he went to the UIC and TD and apologized, and told them he deserved to be thrown out.

Would I have recognized my mistake without throwing the coach out? Possibly, as long as it was still brought to my attention. I was much more inclined to stand my ground thinking I had it right when I ejected someone.

The comment I made about having to eject someone when you screw up applies more to the higher/professional levels, but it can happen at lower levels too. It isn't all the time, of course, but some things (like the play involved here) are examples of what I mean.

[KLAH316]

I don't even recall there being a plate meeting for that particular game.

You ALWAYS have to have a plate meeting!!! That's how you know who the manager is and cover the ground rules, safety and sportsmanship topics....

I would NEVER start a game without a meeting.

[semper_fi_72]

I don't even recall there being a plate meeting for that particular game. The coaches knew who was home and visitor based off of the pool play results, so we didn't have to flip for it.

That is another error made, especially by the PU (Crew)

Just because we know who is HT and VT does not need a plate meeting.

Why do they have plate meetings in MLB? They are professionals who have played the game how many times?

Every game has a plate meeting, even the second game of a double header between the same two teams.

Plate meetings are not to determine the coin flip for who is HT or VT.

What about obtaining line ups and covering rules like CR,CBO or any other rules being used in that tournament.

Never ever start a game without a plate meeting.

[mstaylor]

I am working a USSSA tournament tomorrow that we will have a plate meeting but no lineup exchanges. I don't like it but not my call.

[scrounge]

Should have had my first of the season today, but for some reason I didn't and it's haunting me. 12U travel game, VT coach was a bit loud as I recalled from last year but had no problems with before in the 2 or 3 games I'd had. Early in game, popup to 2B was momentarily caught but then dropped. I didn't think it was voluntary release so I called no catch. VT coach ran out, claiming he "took 2 steps". I explained that he didn't have a voluntary release, I had no catch. Coach was quite unhappy, repeating the 2 steps thing (if anything, he may have taken a half step). As he returned to the dugout, he said "ok, I see what's going on, just like last year". Wha? He goes back to the dugout before I had to stay any more.

Later, fairly routine infield fly with no outs. At least, started out routine. 2B is parked under the ball just on the outfield grass, so I loudly yell "INFIELD FLY - BATTER'S OUT". Just at the very last second, 2B takes a step back and drops the ball. Chaos ensues. Runners take off, stop, coaches are arguing, runners start running again. I keep watching the runners. R1 gets tagged out diving at 2nd, R2 just barely makes it safe to 3rd to avoid the circus triple play. Asst coach at 1st is apoplectic, VT HC comes running out. He says it can't be an IFF because the 2B is in the outfield grass. I quietly explain that that isn't relevant, that in my judgment an infielder could have made the play with ordinary effort. He says that the 2B taking that final step back proved it was unordinary, but I explained that I saw him parked under it and his last-second misplaying of the ball doesn't disqualify the already-called IFF. I thought it was resolved cordially as he went back to the dugout.

There were no further incidents in the game of any note (couple close calls, but they went in his team's favor). However, his team gave up the tying run in the bottom of the 2nd to last inning and eventually lost in the bottom of the first extra inning.

Partner got hung up behind the mound as teams started shaking hands but made it to me pretty quick over by 1st (the winning team's side). As my partner were departing and had already crossed the foul lines but not yet left the field, VT coach came up to me and motioned to get my attention. He came close and said "you shouldn't be doing this, you're no good" and turned to walk away. And for some reason, maybe I'd let my guard down as the game was over or I froze or what, but I didn't eject him right then and there. I said "that's enough" as he continued walking, but I dropkicked that one from here to eternitiy. And it's still got me pissed at myself. I'm still reporting it to the league commissioner (they've asked for reports of abusive behavior even if there's no EJ), but I'm mad at myself for not doing the right thing, for potentially putting the next crew in an abusive situation by not addressing it, for just overall freezing. It's an absolutely awful feeling to know you should have had one but didn't. Being a doormat isn't good.

[24sdad]

Coach was quite unhappy, repeating the 2 steps thing (if anything, he may have taken a half step). As he returned to the dugout, he said "ok, I see what's going on, just like last year". Wha? He goes back to the dugout before I had to stay any more.

I don't know your history with this clown, but this statement should have been dealt with immediately. Again, not knowing what he is referring to, he is either accusing you of cheating or not knowing the rules. Allowing a coach to get the last word in is fine, getting him back to his dugout is our goal, but at the very least a "that's enough" is warranted. And being the moron that he is, he would not have been able to keep his mouth shut. He gets dumped and we play on without his further involvement.

Plus, he never gets the opportunity to make his post game comment.

Learn from what happened (we have all done it, and will probably do it again) and good job on the two calls.

[scrounge]

That was actually somewhat perplexing, as I don't recall any history with this guy. I remember seeing him in two games last year, both as BU. He had some big problems with my partner's strike zone those two games, one leading to a warning, but that's it. I don't even remember any close plays, much less controversial ones. I dunno.

[Dragon29]

. . . Concellation (sp?) . . .

Consolation.