runner touches ball in foul territory

[butle030]

I worked with a new partner the other day. I was working the bases with first and third. Batter hits a slow roller in foul territory off the third base line. The runner on third touched the ball. My partner, the home plate ump, ruled a foul ball, feeling the ball would not have rolled fair. Is this a legitimate call or should the batter have been out due to offensive interference?

If he should have been out, where do we draw the line on coaches picking up foul balls before they stop?

[semper_fi_72]

7.09© He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner.

Until the ball passes 3B or is touched by a offensive player or hits something in foul territory and has been declared foul already the ball is still live.

R3 is out.

I called a R3 out for this very act during a High School game this year.

3B coach knew the call was coming before I even made it.

Coaches are in coaching boxes.

When they field foul balls they are normally well off the line and adjacent to the base. The ball generally has no opportunity to come back fair.

[butle030]

7.09© He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner.

Until the ball passes 3B or is touched by a offensive player or hits something in foul territory and has been declared foul already the ball is still live.

R3 is out.

I called a R3 out for this very act during a High School game this year.

3B coach knew the call was coming before I even made it.

Coaches are in coaching boxes.

When they field foul balls they are normally well off the line and adjacent to the base. The ball generally has no opportunity to come back fair.

Thanks, but I can't find anything equivalent to that in the NFHS rules or case books. I assume you're citing the OBR?

[semper_fi_72]

Thanks, but I can't find anything equivalent to that in the NFHS rules or case books. I assume you're citing the OBR?

Yes OBR.

Always remember unless a OBR rule is modified under NFHS rules, OBR is the default set of rules.

[butle030]

Yes OBR.

Always remember unless a OBR rule is modified under NFHS rules, OBR is the default set of rules.

I'm not sure about this. NFHS is a complete set of stand alone rules and makes no reference to using OBR where it is silent. You are the first person who has ever told me to defer to OBR.

[kwiggie]

My experience, a coach in the box is typically at or beyond the bag when heshe knocks down a ball up the line... foul ball.

A foul ball touching a runner in foul territory is foul, unless as you describe a possible "slow roller", bunt perhaps being kept foul by a r3 too the advantage of the offence... you might have somthing.

There is no reference to using obr rules by default in a fed game, not that I am aware of anyways. In all fairness to Semper fi my books are on loan, if it is sited in the fed books I digress, and would like it sited so as I can look it up.

[SRP]

7.09©

Coaches are in coaching boxes.

When they field foul balls they are normally well off the line and adjacent to the base. The ball generally has no opportunity to come back fair.

In a Triple Crown tournament last year our 3rd base coach was ejected for fielding a foul ball. PU said it hadn't passed the base so sent him to the parking lot. I let them go by, it's not my job to stop it.

When I'm PU, since it was a slow roller then I probably have the interference call based on his intent.

[Rich Ives]

Yes OBR.

Always remember unless a OBR rule is modified under NFHS rules, OBR is the default set of rules.

Uhhh - NO!

FED and NCAA have their own rule books (complete). There is no deferring to someone else's book.

[noumpere]

My experience, a coach in the box is typically at or beyond the bag when heshe knocks down a ball up the line... foul ball.

The back end of the (properly-marked) coaching box is at the bag.

[butle030]

A foul ball touching a runner in foul territory is foul, unless as you describe a possible "slow roller", bunt perhaps being kept foul by a r3 too the advantage of the offence... you might have somthing.

This is my interpretation after scouring the NFHS rules too but I have the question in to the head of my association as well. In fact, this was a 14-year old who meant no harm by touching the ball but just did a dumb thing because, well, he's 14. He simply meant to return it to the pitcher for the next play. Add to that the ball was moving so slowly, all runners would have been safe had the ball rolled back fair by some strange act of nature. I'm more comfortable this was called correctly than I initially was.

[Thunderheads]

7.09© He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner.

Until the ball passes 3B or is touched by a offensive player or hits something in foul territory and has been declared foul already the ball is still live.

R3 is out.

I called a R3 out for this very act during a High School game this year.

3B coach knew the call was coming before I even made it.

Coaches are in coaching boxes.

When they field foul balls they are normally well off the line and adjacent to the base. The ball generally has no opportunity to come back fair.

See bold, you said offensive, ...did you mean defensive?

[semper_fi_72]

Uhhh - NO!

FED and NCAA have their own rule books (complete). There is no deferring to someone else's book.

Yes, NFS, NCAA, Little League are all separate rules which are written off of OBR.

The basic rules are the same.

The differences come in on Dead Ball, Delayed Dead Ball, Balks, Slide/Avoid, Equipment etc.

Once you know OBR you can work any other set of rules by knowing the difference in those rules.

They are just written in different format.

[semper_fi_72]

See bold, you said offensive, ...did you mean defensive?

Yes I did mean Defensive.

[kwiggie]

The back end of the (properly-marked) coaching box is at the bag.

Yes, properly-marked being the key words.

[spiritump]

if the ball had no chance of going fair(Ump Jugment)it is just a foul ball--just the fact that the runner on third touched the ball he is not out--only if in the jugment of the ump that the ball had a chance of going fair should he be out

[Rich Ives]

Yes, NFS, NCAA, Little League are all separate rules which are written off of OBR.

The basic rules are the same.

The differences come in on Dead Ball, Delayed Dead Ball, Balks, Slide/Avoid, Equipment etc.

Once you know OBR you can work any other set of rules by knowing the difference in those rules.

They are just written in different format.

You do NOT defer to OBR in a FED or NCAA game. They have their own rules, interps, and FED has it's own case book.

The BRD (2009) has 534 examples where there are rule differences.

You do NOT defer.

[UmpJM]

...The basic rules are the same.

...

Once you know OBR you can work any other set of rules by knowing the difference in those rules.

They are just written in different format.

semper_fi,

Gotta' disagree with you on this.

In some ways, the 3 different rulesets are fundamentally different, with a different "logic" to them than OBR rules in some respects.

JM

[mstaylor]

Both John and semper_fi are correct. OBR was the original rules for baseball and were written for men. Many youth organizations adopted those rules and overlaid their age appropriate rules and safety rules over them.

Fed and NCAA took the basis of OBR and wrote their own set of rules with student atheletes in mind. Quite a bit of it is the same but quite a bit is very different. Therefore it is a common understanding that unless Fed/NCAA addresses it then default to OBR.