Suspended game rule

[mbua22]

Pro rules

game is tied in extra innings. Visitors score 8 runs in TOP of inning. Home team sends 2 batters to the plate in bottom of inning when umpire calls game on account of darkness. Is this a suspended game at that point? Is it a tie game? Something else?

Thanks

MBUA22

[AZump78]

Were you implying the league uses the "suspended game rule" since that is the title of the post or were you just asking what the rule is for suspending a game?

I am going to assume the latter.

Under OBR, games are always "suspended" when they are halted due to darkness, whether or not they have become "regulation" games at the point of stoppage, so the inning is irrelevant.

Since it is suspended, it will be picked up at the point of stoppage (ie, exactly where you left it).

Make sure to note the all details: runners/batter #, score, count etc. Save the lineup cards and get it to your assignor so that the next crew (if not you) has all this for when the game gets going again.

If you are on the crew that gets to come back and finish the game, enjoy the game check you will get for 10-20 minutes of work!

[mbua22]

I agree but under what rule reference? Rule 4.12 (a) 1-6 does not clearly state the stated situation. (5) states the visitors going ahead when the game is called but that is for weather. Is darkness to be interpreted as weather? (3) states light failure. I know prior to Wrigley field getting lights, the "official" interpretation was when the sun went down, it was to be considered light failure. Would this apply?

MBUA22

[Rich Ives]

I agree but under what rule reference? Rule 4.12 (a) 1-6 does not clearly state the stated situation. (5) states the visitors going ahead when the game is called but that is for weather. Is darkness to be interpreted as weather? (3) states light failure. I know prior to Wrigley field getting lights, the "official" interpretation was when the sun went down, it was to be considered light failure. Would this apply?

MBUA22

Use some common sense. Darkness is light failure isn't it? Apply 4.12(a)(3).

BTW, in LL the score reverts if the visitors tied or went ahead.in the TOP of the ining.

[mbua22]

Unfortunately, when dealing with coaches, "common sense" does not usually come into play. I am looking for a rule reference/ interpretation that can be shown to the people in question. This is OBR only. Anyone have an answer?

Rich, BTW, the comment on using common sense was uncalled for. As a rules interpreter and umpire for over 30 years, I deserved more respect than that.

MBUA22

[AZump78]

4.12 A-4

Just because you have been sitting in a garage for 30 years doesn't make you a mechanic.

[sdix00]

FRUM the WUM:

http://sn.im/suspendedgames

[semper_fi_72]

Pro rules

game is tied in extra innings. Visitors score 8 runs in TOP of inning. Home team sends 2 batters to the plate in bottom of inning when umpire calls game on account of darkness. Is this a suspended game at that point? Is it a tie game? Something else?

Thanks

MBUA22

It is something else that I as a Umpire will not worry about.

What happens to the game at that point is the responsibility of League Officials not the Umpires.

[mbua22]

dix,

Great post. Very helpful. Thank You! But the greater question still remains,.....on a field with no lights and no weather issues (rain, lightning, etc..) game is stopped in the 8th on account of darkness with the visiting team ahead (due to scoring in the TOP of the inning to break a tie) while the home team is a bat in the bottom of the inning. What reference would be used and at what point does the game continue (if it does at all)? I need to present such to a group that requires written references. I have been unable to find any. I know its suspended, but I can't find positive written proof.

BTW, Is there a reason why some people are so rude on this site?

MBUA22

Wendelstedt class of '90

[noumpere]

It's a league issue and should be covered in the leagues bylaws. Its either a suspended game or it reverts, whatever the documents say. If they dont say anything then this could be the catalist to get it in there.

I should add that I dont think straight OBR has the revert rule anymore so your game would be suspended if theres nothing covered in the bylaws. But some leagues that claim to play by straight OBR have some exceptions in reality and sometimes they dont always tell the umpires about all those exceptions.

And if the teams are all realtively local and especially if they will play again then suspending is the way to go. Otherwise the visitors have to try to decide how many runs is enough and how much time is left to get the home team out and then the visitors need to try to make outs while the home team decides to stall to see if they can get the game reverted. It is or at least can be a big mess.

[sdix00]

Folks are just matter of fact, and in reality, I think you will find that this site is one of the most cordial umpire sites on the interwebs.

If you know the man, you would not take it as an insult. He is simply offering the advice "use some common sense", which is often required when dealing with the OBR.

The pokes are in good fun and intended to keep us on our toes and our nose down. You won't find a group of more supportive guys anywhere.

Good questions.

[AZump78]

I am going to put this in caps since I have already told you the rule once. God forbid you go look it up yourself!

4.12 SUSPENDED GAMES

(A) A GAME SHALL BECOME A SUSPENDED GAME THAT MUST BE COMPLETED AT A FUTURE DATE IF THE GAME IS TERMINATED FOR ANY OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:

4. DARKNESS, WHEN A LAW PREVENTS THE LIGHTS FROM BEING TURNED ON.

Before you go all "but there is no law preventing it from being turned on - there are no lights to begin with" on me, this is the exact rule cited by Jaska and Roder on page 163 of their book when discussing suspended games. They say: "DARKNESS IF THERE ARE NO FIELD LIGHTS OR LAW PROHIBITS THEIR USE."

MLB actually has taken verbiage from their book and incorporated it into the OBR in the past (as I am sure you of all people know being a rules interpreter for decades), so safe to say if their interp is good enough for the MLB Rules Committee, it should suffice for you and your study group.

The irony is I was so complete in my original answer to you because I assumed you were a newer umpire since the questions was so painfully straightforward. And you pop off back about how much experience you have at the rules!

Always remeber, respect is earned. I don't care if you have been an umpire or rules interperter for ONE HUNDRED and 30 years, if you don't know the anwser to this questions already, or at least have the basic ability to look it up in multiple places to find the anwser, you are not very good at the rules. Sorry sir.

[Rich Ives]

Darkness is the inability to have a light source present artifical or the sun. Anyone trying to argue otherwise has as much sense as a base bag.

You can't be a good umpire or rule interpreter and be so binary as to think the sun going down doesn't count..

[Welpe]

So I guess this would be a day game turned night game...

[Guest]

Pro rules

game is tied in extra innings. Visitors score 8 runs in TOP of inning. Home team sends 2 batters to the plate in bottom of inning when umpire calls game on account of darkness. Is this a suspended game at that point? Is it a tie game? Something else?

Thanks

MBUA22

It is something else that I as a Umpire will not worry about.

What happens to the game at that point is the responsibility of League Officials not the Umpires.

Wrong.

You are required to give some form of directive as to the status of the game prior to leaving the park.

Any league that requires this score to revert to the previous inning is absurd.

[Welpe]

Wrong.

You are required to give some form of directive as to the status of the game prior to leaving the park.

Maybe under Baseball Canada but every organization in every sport I've worked has specified that the official will suspend the contest and then leave it up to the organization / league to make the final determination.

[Rich Ives]

Pro rules

game is tied in extra innings. Visitors score 8 runs in TOP of inning. Home team sends 2 batters to the plate in bottom of inning when umpire calls game on account of darkness. Is this a suspended game at that point? Is it a tie game? Something else?

Thanks

MBUA22

It is something else that I as a Umpire will not worry about.

What happens to the game at that point is the responsibility of League Officials not the Umpires.

Wrong.

You are required to give some form of directive as to the status of the game prior to leaving the park.

Any league that requires this score to revert to the previous inning is absurd.

Status is not the umpire's job. He calls it. His job is over.

LL uses revert back because the season is short and compalct and it's often too hard to schedule the continuation.

OBR used to revert back. It made sense in the train travel days. Now that travel is so much easier it doesn't so they changed.

[ukce1861]

So I guess this would be a day game turned night game...

Which obviously begs the question - what's the proper ruling if it was a night game turned day game?

[AZump78]

The reason they don't want umpires to state what will happen with the game when it is stopped is because they will likely get it wrong and further confuse the situation (and lose credibility).

Best to leave it up to the brass. Make them EARN those booking/association fees!

[yawetag]

Which obviously begs the question - what's the proper ruling if it was a night game turned day game?

If the game were played by vampires, I'd assume the rules would be similar to how our games are called because of darkness.

[mbua22]

Thanks to all of you who "tried" to give me the written interpretations. Also for those of you who injected some humor into this thread.

Contrary to what some of you have said, I do know the rule and stated so early in this thread. You don't get into my position without having knowledge of the rules. I was only looking for something that could not be found in the standard rule book text (I did look it up) or in assorted manuals (PBUC, WUM) as I looked into them as well. I am not so high and mighty that I would not ask others in my vocation what their opinions and views would be. These forums are a valuable tool and I use them when the resources at my disposal do not have a definitive answer.

When I am asked, "where did you get that interpretation?", I need to be able to, without question, say where it came from. Usually it is in the rule book/manuals. Sometimes it needs to be dug up. It cannot be just my opinion. I had spent the past 2 days digging for such information BEFORE I asked the gentlemen on this site. I believe in being thorough, it's better than being wrong.

I do believe the personal attacks upon my rules knowledge was uncalled for, I was only looking for some help from fellow umpires to further enhance my position on this rule.

MBUA22

[AZump78]

You are welcome.

[AZump78]

Before we close the book on this one MBUA, was the question answered to your satisfaction?

[Rich Ives]

So I guess this would be a day game turned night game...

Which obviously begs the question - what's the proper ruling if it was a night game turned day game?

You'd probably be in the 37th ining . . . ;-)

[semper_fi_72]

Pro rules

game is tied in extra innings. Visitors score 8 runs in TOP of inning. Home team sends 2 batters to the plate in bottom of inning when umpire calls game on account of darkness. Is this a suspended game at that point? Is it a tie game? Something else?

Thanks

MBUA22

It is something else that I as a Umpire will not worry about.

What happens to the game at that point is the responsibility of League Officials not the Umpires.

Wrong.

You are required to give some form of directive as to the status of the game prior to leaving the park.

Any league that requires this score to revert to the previous inning is absurd.

I do give a directive as to the status of the game.

I loudly proclaime "BALL GAME"

Then the league decides what happens about the outcome of the game.