Can a pitcher do this?

[stl_ump]

OBR / 12u travel team

Sitch one: R3 / RHP

Pitcher is in the windup, both feet on the rubber, hands together, looking in at the catcher.

Without taking either foot off the rubber, he noticeably shifts his weight from pivot foot to free foot back to pivot foot. Balk?

Sitch 2: R1 / LHP

Pitcher comes set. He steps off with the proper foot before seperating his hands, but as he is stepping off, and before his foot is actually on the ground he is throwing to 1st. Kind of falling backwards as he is throwing. Legal?

[Mike Prince]

First Sitch I have no balk

Second Sitch I am not quite sure what you are saying. Is he picking up his non-pivot foot and stepping towards first? As long as he gains distance toward the base and actually makes the throw (since he is engaged), this is legal.

[stl_ump]

He is disengaging by correctly stepping off. But as he steps off and before his foot is on the ground, he is throwing the ball. He is throwing as he is leaning back/sideways as his foot comes down. Kind of like a QB who throws off his front foot as he leans back avoiding a tackler.

[sdix00]

Sitch one is a good time to apply the phrase "the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the “intent†of the pitcher should govern. "

Shifting from side-to-side is not a balk if you don't interpret it to be the start of his pitching motion. There is no rule that says F1 can't move. It simply basically says he can't start his motion then stop.

If however I judge this motion to be deliberately deceptive, then I interpret this shifting to be the start of his motion and I will balk him if he does not deliver. So, in pro ball, I would balk it. In 12U I would be a little more forgiving, but still wait to see what happens next.

In Sitch 2, I have a balk. Here is why.

1. I require F1 to start to disengage before he separates his hands.

2. I require F1 to finish disengaging before he releases the ball.

If he does not do these 2 things, I interpret that as not only violating the letter of the rule, but attempting to gain an illegal advantage be completing the throw before completing the disengagement. Also, this move usually looks pretty awkward and is an easy call.

[stl_ump]

But does the RULE require him to finish disengaging befoere throwing?

[sdix00]

He is only allowed to do three things. Pitch, Step to a base for the purpose of making a play, or disengage.

Until he does one of those three things, it is a balk if he does anything else.

He has not legally disengaged unless he lifts his pivot foot and places it on the ground behind the rubber.

[mstaylor]

But does the RULE require him to finish disengaging befoere throwing?

Yes

[noumpere]

But does the RULE require him to finish disengaging befoere throwing?

Yes

I agree thats the rule but in practice some leeway is given to left handed pitchers who start the arm motion before the pivot foot lands behind the rubber. Should we give the same leeway to right handed pitchers?

[Pops]

But does the RULE require him to finish disengaging befoere throwing?

Yes

I agree thats the rule but in practice some leeway is given to left handed pitchers who start the arm motion before the pivot foot lands behind the rubber. Should we give the same leeway to right handed pitchers?

I think F1 can start his arm motion, but can't release the ball until the pivot foot touches the ground. It happens so quick that most of us give the "leeway" you're referring to on both lefties and righties. At least that's how I see it.

[jjskitours]

It has always been my understanding that the pivot foot must hit the ground behind the rubber before the hands separate to have properly disengaged. Correct?

I realize that many pitchers perform this action very quickly and it is difficult at times to be sure the foot is on the ground when the hands come apart. I only will

call when there is a clear violation, e.g. the hands separate before the foot is raised or before the foot has reached at least behind the rubber.

[mstaylor]

It has always been my understanding that the pivot foot must hit the ground behind the rubber before the hands separate to have properly disengaged. Correct?

I realize that many pitchers perform this action very quickly and it is difficult at times to be sure the foot is on the ground when the hands come apart. I only will

call when there is a clear violation, e.g. the hands separate before the foot is raised or before the foot has reached at least behind the rubber.

You are exactly right. Technically the foot should land then the hands and step can be done. Yes, it happens very quickly and pass on it unless it is obvious.

[grayhawk]

I think it's one of those times that I judge that it's a balk if I am fooled by it. If F1 does this quickly and I think, by his movement, that he is coming home and he throws to first instead, it will probably result in a balk. If it happens quickly and it looked to me like he was going to first, then it's nothing.

[noumpere]

I think it's one of those times that I judge that it's a balk if I am fooled by it. If F1 does this quickly and I think, by his movement, that he is coming home and he throws to first instead, it will probably result in a balk. If it happens quickly and it looked to me like he was going to first, then it's nothing.

Im confused by this. I think we are talking about a pitcher stepping off and throwing essentially flat footed to first. How does this look like a move to the plate?

Also for those of you who give the lefty a little leeway in starting the arm motion when he throws to first (and I am one of you). What do you do if the pitcher steps with the pivot foot and throws to second all in one motion. Think of a normal goofy-footed throw a three year old might make, but extended up to a 23 year old. Do you give the same leeway or balk it? Its clear the motion started as the foot was moving but the ball wasnt released until the foot was on the ground.

[mstaylor]

Yes.

[catsbackr]

You guys have faster eyes than I do.