The pitcher must have one hand on his side.

[sdix00]

R2.

F1 (RHP) toes the rubber in the preliminary position with his pivot foot in contact and his free foot in front of the rubber.

F1 leans in to take a sign with the ball in his right hand which is resting on his right leg and his glove resting against his left leg.

What do you have for the underlined part in:

LL JR/Sr/BL:

FED:

NCAA:

OBR:

(Hint: I have four different things. But I am probably wrong.)

If you have something, what is your mechanic?

[UmpJM]

DIX,

I don't "do" LL, so I have no idea if they have anything special.

For each of the other codes, I got "nothin" - other than a legal (preliminary) pitching position.

What's the purpose of the rule defining where the pitcher positions his pitching hand when taking the set position prior to "coming set"?

Some suggest that it is because the runner is in some sense entitled to "see his pitching hand". Many of them are coaches. However, the notion is utter nonsense. I believe the purpose of the rule is that the runner IS entitled to see when the pitcher brings his hands together to "come set" - and the rule says that his hands must be reasonably well separated when he first engages the rubber.

JM

[Thunderheads]

I agree with JM. You can't have your hands together looking in for the sign, they must be apart, yes? F1 has his hands separated.

[noumpere]

I agree with JM. You can't have your hands together looking in for the sign, they must be apart, yes? F1 has his hands separated.

Sure you can depending on what you do prior to joining them but you are now set and need to be careful what you do next or it will be a balk.

As to the first question I agree with UmpJM. One example of where the rule would come into play is if the pitcher stayed upright to take the signs and the hands were each in front of him on the thighs or hip bones. Here the runner at first (if this was a right handed pitcher) couldn't see whether or when the pitcher came set.

[mstaylor]

I got nothing in any code.

[sdix00]

FED: ball / balk. (2-18; 6-1-3 Pen)

NCAA: warning / balk. (9-1b-1 Pen)

OBR: no penalty listed (Option: TIME! Pitcher don't do that)

LL JR/Sr/BL: "pitcher must have one hand on his side" does not exist in the OBR-based rule book.

[Guest]

I think you're splitting hairs here, pal.

[sdix00]

That is the point.

There are three different enforcements. Yet some umpires seem to offer a fourth: Treat all as in Little League.

So on my list of infractions to ignore / Rules not to enforce - this goes on that list?

[Guest]

I'd say so.

Point of the rule, to me, seems to ensure that the pitcher at least gives runners the chance to see when he's stretching vs when he's set.

Granted I work only under OBR, but as long as the above condition is met, I'm a happy camper.

[Pops]

I agree with JM. You can't have your hands together looking in for the sign, they must be apart, yes? F1 has his hands separated.

Sure you can depending on what you do prior to joining them but you are now set and need to be careful what you do next or it will be a balk.

As to the first question I agree with UmpJM. One example of where the rule would come into play is if the pitcher stayed upright to take the signs and the hands were each in front of him on the thighs or hip bones. Here the runner at first (if this was a right handed pitcher) couldn't see whether or when the pitcher came set.

noumpere, I think you hit the nail on the head. If the pitcher is upright, he can bring his hands together without the runner on first seeing him come set. However, the original post has R2 and the pitcher leaning in which means he will move his upper body while moving his hands together. So should we enforce the rule different depending on where the baserunner is or whether or not the pitcher is leaning in to get his sign? The easy way out is to do a "no call" but is this the best way to handle it?

[mstaylor]

Maybe we aren't seeing the picture correctly but I don't see the violation.

[sdix00]

Maybe we aren't seeing the picture correctly but I don't see the violation.

The intent of the OP is to illustrate that F1 does not have his pitching hand at his side or behind his back, rather both hands are in front of him in a manner that the Runner cannot distinguish between initial SET and the final position after the STOP.

The question was, although there are three different enforcements at three different levels, are any of them relavant?

[mstaylor]

To me, I read that he is leaning in to get his sign, which tells me he is stepping back into a set. If that is the case I would be less worried about exactly where his hands are. If he is upright then it becomes more important because he isn't moving his feet.

[noumpere]

That is the point.

There are three different enforcements. Yet some umpires seem to offer a fourth: Treat all as in Little League.

So on my list of infractions to ignore / Rules not to enforce - this goes on that list?

Your just reading the books way too literal (in my opinion of course). As some would say dont be a plumber or dont be a detective or dont pick nits. The book doesnt always say what it means or mean what it says.

[Richvee]

We had a similar question on our state FED test this year.

While in the set pos. F1 has his pitching arm at rest across his thigh or across his abdominal area.

a. Legal

b. illegal

c. If there are baserunners, a waning is issued.

Letter of the law, "In the set position,... his pitching arm must be at his side or behind his back". So I answered A.

Nit picking? I think so.

Would any of you guys call this balk in a game?

[mstaylor]

Our state interpreter did several years ago. When questioned why it was illegal he asked why the pitcher was doing it. "Well, to hide the ball from the runner of course!" Bingo, balk stands.

[UmpJM]

It's perfectly legal for a LHP to hold the ball in his left hand behind his back - where it's impossible for an R1 to see it. So it's perfectly legal for the pitcher to "hide the ball from the runner".

What a pitcher can't do is "hide the motion of bringing his hands together to complete his set" - which is the purpose of the rule. So, if his pitching hand is across his belly or thigh, it's not that he's hiding the ball, he's hiding his motion to come set.

JM

[Pops]

It's perfectly legal for a LHP to hold the ball in his left hand behind his back - where it's impossible for an R1 to see it. So it's perfectly legal for the pitcher to "hide the ball from the runner".

What a pitcher can't do is "hide the motion of bringing his hands together to complete his set" - which is the purpose of the rule. So, if his pitching hand is across his belly or thigh, it's not that he's hiding the ball, he's hiding his motion to come set.

JM

You make a great point on the intent of the rule!

[sdix00]

It's perfectly legal for a LHP to hold the ball in his left hand behind his back - where it's impossible for an R1 to see it. So it's perfectly legal for the pitcher to "hide the ball from the runner".

What a pitcher can't do is "hide the motion of bringing his hands together to complete his set" - which is the purpose of the rule. So, if his pitching hand is across his belly or thigh, it's not that he's hiding the ball, he's hiding his motion to come set.

JM

Outstanding example of literal vs intent.

[umped up]

R2.

F1 (RHP) toes the rubber in the preliminary position with his pivot foot in contact and his free foot in front of the rubber.

F1 leans in to take a sign with the ball in his right hand which is resting on his right leg and his glove resting against his left leg.

What do you have for the underlined part in:

LL JR/Sr/BL:

FED:

NCAA:

OBR:

(Hint: I have four different things. But I am probably wrong.)

If you have something, what is your mechanic?

forgive me for my ignorance but I'm not sure of one of those abbreviations. What is "FED"? I see it often but never knew exactly what it stood for. Thanks.

[sdix00]

R2.

F1 (RHP) toes the rubber in the preliminary position with his pivot foot in contact and his free foot in front of the rubber.

F1 leans in to take a sign with the ball in his right hand which is resting on his right leg and his glove resting against his left leg.

What do you have for the underlined part in:

LL JR/Sr/BL:

FED:

NCAA:

OBR:

(Hint: I have four different things. But I am probably wrong.)

If you have something, what is your mechanic?

forgive me for my ignorance but I'm not sure of one of those abbreviations. What is "FED"? I see it often but never knew exactly what it stood for. Thanks.

No Problem.

FED = NFHS = Nation Federation of High Schools = HS

You can mouse over most acronyms on this site and get a tool tip pop up with the definition.

[Thunderheads]

R2.

F1 (RHP) toes the rubber in the preliminary position with his pivot foot in contact and his free foot in front of the rubber.

F1 leans in to take a sign with the ball in his right hand which is resting on his right leg and his glove resting against his left leg.

What do you have for the underlined part in:

LL JR/Sr/BL:

FED:

NCAA:

OBR:

(Hint: I have four different things. But I am probably wrong.)

If you have something, what is your mechanic?

forgive me for my ignorance but I'm not sure of one of those abbreviations. What is "FED"? I see it often but never knew exactly what it stood for. Thanks.

No Problem.

FED = NFHS = Nation Federation of High Schools = HS

You can mouse over most acronyms on this site and get a tool tip pop up with the definition.

^^^^

YEP ...it's one of those abbreviations that stands for others, ....all are the same: FED / NFHS / HS