Coach Ejected a Player

[JaxRolo]

15U game last night first inning second batter. Inside pitch. I call it a Ball.

F1 request time, I granted. F1 walks towards home plate. I just thought he was coming to talk to the catcher.

F1 Starts questioning me about the inside pitch.

Before I even can beging to get my arm up and Eject the player. Coach comes out screaming at F1 and told him to leave.

Coach apologizes to me.

It was somewhat amusing!

[Guest]

15U game last night first inning second batter. Inside pitch. I call it a Ball.

F1 request time, I granted. F1 walks towards home plate. I just thought he was coming to talk to the catcher.

F1 Starts questioning me about the inside pitch.

Before I even can beging to get my arm up and Eject the player. Coach comes out screaming at F1 and told him to leave.

Coach apologizes to me.

It was somewhat amusing!

Joe Maddon did it last year (I think) and if I'm wrong, then it was definitely the year before. And the funny thing was, Eric Hinske got dumped by PU later in the game, so he was down two guys off his bench at that point.

What did the kid say? Unless it was rather "show you up-ish", or you had already told him to quit it, send the catcher out and tell him to relay that if F1 does it again, he's done.

See Mike Winters' ejection of LaTroy Hawkins last year at Wrigley. Textbook. Winters balls a close pitch, Hawkins beaks, the stop sign comes up, Hawkins tells him to shut up and get back behind the plate, and Winters sees his "shut up" and raises him a :wave:

[JaxRolo]

Joe Maddon did it last year (I think) and if I'm wrong, then it was definitely the year before. And the funny thing was, Eric Hinske got dumped by PU later in the game, so he was down two guys off his bench at that point.

What did the kid say? Unless it was rather "show you up-ish", or you had already told him to quit it, send the catcher out and tell him to relay that if F1 does it again, he's done.

See Mike Winters' ejection of LaTroy Hawkins last year at Wrigley. Textbook. Winters balls a close pitch, Hawkins beaks, the stop sign comes up, Hawkins tells him to shut up and get back behind the plate, and Winters sees his "shut up" and raises him a

From what I remember it was something along the lines of: "Blue this is nothing against you but you know the batter was crowding the plate and I thought it was a great pitch. How far inside was it?"

[DirtyDawg]

Did he do it loud enough so everyone can hear?

[BrianC14]

Did he do it loud enough so everyone can hear?

Volume and choice of words are irrelevant when he's walking in toward the plate.

Would you give the same leeway to a catcher who turned around on you?

I know I wouldn't. I know I haven't.

F1's place is up on the bump. He comes in to visit, he better be inviting me to a party at the Playboy mansion - otherwise, he's toast.

[DirtyDawg]

Volume and choice of words are irrelevant when he's walking in toward the plate.

Would you give the same leeway to a catcher who turned around on you?

I know I wouldn't. I know I haven't.

F1's place is up on the bump. He comes in to visit, he better be inviting me to a party at the Playboy mansion - otherwise, he's toast.

To me it's going to depend on the situation. I have no problem what so ever answering a catcher's question of where did the pitch miss, just as long as it is kept as a question of actual location and not a "you gotta be kidding me" type of situation. I would much rather answer that question, get the game on with the pitcher hitting my strike zone than toss a catcher and have the pitcher keep missing the strike zone for the rest of the game.

And I ask about volume for one factor. In his situation, if the pitcher was loud enough to question athority like that, I'm going to respond the same way you would, but if it's a private conversation then I'm going to be willing to get on with just a warning.

[BrianC14]

To me it's going to depend on the situation. I have no problem what so ever answering a catcher's question of where did the pitch miss, just as long as it is kept as a question of actual location and not a "you gotta be kidding me" type of situation. I would much rather answer that question, get the game on with the pitcher hitting my strike zone than toss a catcher and have the pitcher keep missing the strike zone for the rest of the game.

And I ask about volume for one factor. In his situation, if the pitcher was loud enough to question athority like that, I'm going to respond the same way you would, but if it's a private conversation then I'm going to be willing to get on with just a warning.

No umpire should take questions about the strike zone. It's something that can become habit-forming - even addictive to players and coaches alike.

When a pitcher walks in, and questions the zone, he's already showing you up - he's already questioning your authority and integrity. His ACTIONS are speaking louder than any words he might use.

It's a world of difference between a catcher who (without turning around) asks you, "Was that just off?" or maybe even 'Where'd you have that?' But if he turns around, he's in deep kimchee.

[DirtyDawg]

No umpire should take questions about the strike zone. It's something that can become habit-forming - even addictive to players and coaches alike.

When a pitcher walks in, and questions the zone, he's already showing you up - he's already questioning your authority and integrity. His ACTIONS are speaking louder than any words he might use.

It's a world of difference between a catcher who (without turning around) asks you, "Was that just off?" or maybe even 'Where'd you have that?' But if he turns around, he's in deep kimchee.

I think on this one we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on. I see your points and understand fully where you are coming from, but I don't see myself officiating on these terms. It might be that it's not something I've had to deal on a constant game to game basis as well as many other factors, but I still don't see myself officiating this way unless the need actually presents itself.

[JaxRolo]

It would have been different if he had asked where the pitch was from the Mound. But to come all the way to home plate to discuss a strike? I don't think so.

[moblue]

I don't get on to catchers for turning their head to say something. I wear a full catcher's mask (mask + helmet) and can hear them much better when they turn their head to the side. More times than not they aren't saying anything bad. Just turning their head to be heard is okay by me. Turning completely around or close to it, well, most catchers know better than that.

[jjb]

Unless I'm working a Varsity game, I'm constantly talking to the catcher. I want the pitcher to throw strikes. so, I'm telling the catcher (quietly) "He's gotta bring that pitch up, another half ball inside and he's got that one, etc". I've also found that, when I'm doing this and the coach asks "where was that one?" the catcher answers for me, and takes me out of the conversation.

As far as pitchers go, I can think of only one instance where the pitcher came down the mound at me. I don't think he made it to the grass: the coach intercepted him, stuck his finger in his face, and (after some harsh words) chased him back. The coach then apologized to me, and we went on with the game.

[DirtyDawg]

It would have been different if he had asked where the pitch was from the Mound. But to come all the way to home plate to discuss a strike? I don't think so.

That's kind of why I asked how loud he was.....if it was loud enough for only me, the catcher, and batter to hear, then I can find a way to play it off (i.e. having him throw me the ball while I give him the other ball in return, making it look like a ball exchange), then giving him a soft warning, and going on about the game.

[HokieUmp]

That's kind of why I asked how loud he was.....if it was loud enough for only me, the catcher, and batter to hear, then I can find a way to play it off (i.e. having him throw me the ball while I give him the other ball in return, making it look like a ball exchange), then giving him a soft warning, and going on about the game.

Problem is, in the OP, the F1 not only came to question, but he called time specifically to do so. Even if you're more inclined to try and keep the kid in the game, and keep things moving, EVERYbody knows what's going on. And you're going to take <bleep> all game. So launch 'im.

[DirtyDawg]

EVERYbody knows what's going on

This is where you lost me......this is why I was asking about the kid's volume when he asked the question. I can think of a lot of other questions the kid can ask me besides where did that pitch miss. EVERYbody may assume they know what the kid is asking, but do the really know what's going on if they didn't hear the kid say, "Hey Blue, where'd that miss?"

[jim knight]

Just my take on this... 15 year old pitcher asking for time then questioning my call on balls or strikes... I would run him without warning. If the coach beat me to it... oh well move on.

[JaxRolo]

This is where you lost me......this is why I was asking about the kid's volume when he asked the question. I can think of a lot of other questions the kid can ask me besides where did that pitch miss. EVERYbody may assume they know what the kid is asking, but do the really know what's going on if they didn't hear the kid say, "Hey Blue, where'd that miss?"

The volume didn't matter to me. He cam all the way to home plate to question the strike. He was gone whether the coach did it or I did it.

[DirtyDawg]

But it's in these above to statements where you lose me. You will warn a coach about arguing balls and strikes, but if a player does it, you just toss him. IMO, I think if you warn one party, you should warn all parties. If ejection is on your agenda, then do it consistently. I've argued this before, and I may be scrutinized fearcly for my POV on the topic, but it's still my POV, just like Brian, Jax, Jim, and everyone else have theirs.

[JaxRolo]

But it's in these above to statements where you lose me. You will warn a coach about arguing balls and strikes, but if a player does it, you just toss him. IMO, I think if you warn one party, you should warn all parties. If ejection is on your agenda, then do it consistently. I've argued this before, and I may be scrutinized fearcly for my POV on the topic, but it's still my POV, just like Brian, Jax, Jim, and everyone else have theirs.

If he had said something from the mound I would have warned him.

But there is no way he is calling time and coming to talk to me about it.

mmm I think I said this before.

[DirtyDawg]

If he had said something from the mound I would have warned him.

But there is no way he is calling time and coming to talk to me about it.

mmm I think I said this before.

Alright, you lost me, what did you say?

[jim knight]

Calling a fair game and keeping control of the game are my adgenda items... I want to keep everyone in until they earn a early exit... and it is not cut and dry, I may not just run a young pitcher without first trying something to keep him in... but the OP made it clear that he had to go... that is why his coach took care of it. He was getting dumped and rightfully so from what was in the OP. Funny thing is I do not have to run many due to fact that they know better... if you let them walk on you they will... if you dont they wont.

[DirtyDawg]

I understand that, and looking back at the OP, I probably would have done the same, too, just for the fact that if the kid was loud enough for the coach to hear, then he's making a spectacle of you, which is the quickest way to get home. I am mainly just contemplating the umpire/player relationship with the umpire/coach relationship.

[jim knight]

Same deal with a coach... if he asks for time and comes out and questions my call on balls or strikes... Done. That being said, I will do everything to keep the coach in as well.

[kcfan102]

Volume doesn't matter. If the pitcher calls freakin time out to come ask me about my strike zone, that is a prime of example of trying to show me up. He is gettin the boot.

Like Jax said, if he shows me his palms and sayin some jibba jabba from the mound, I'll take my mask off and tell him to knock it off but I won't toss him.

If a coach comes up to me during an inning to discuss the same issue, he'll be getting the same treatment. Moral to the story, don't call time and ask about balls and strikes.

Conversations concerning balls and strikes are very one sided.

Jax, just curious, how close did he get to you?

[Dragon29]

I'm not a big EJ guy - not at all - but for me, the decision on whether or not to dump based on the actions described in the OP would have something to do with the level of play/age of the players.

At 15, this F1 knew what he was doing; if F2 doesn't go out to get him (& I'm more than likely telling him to) he's gone. Period.

If F1's 10, I'd probably be more lenient 'cause I'm figuring he doesn't know what he's doing. I'm still not answering his question.

If F1's shaving age and starts this - :D

[JaxRolo]

Jax, just curious, how close did he get to you?

I had stepped off a couple of steps to the right of F2. He came around the catcher who was standing by HP and was a couple of feet from me.

After we got back to playing F2 told me that F1 has a major attitude problem.