Coach runs on field to assist injured player

[Mike Prince]

Babe Ruth rulebook is used for this league.

R3, batter hits grounder to F6 whose throw home has R3 beat. R3 crosses arms and catches F2 right under the chin at full speed at the plate. F2 does a backflip from the impact, ball comes out in midair and he lands on it. PU calls R3 out (and he got ejected), F2 comes up quickly and tries to throw out batter advancing to 2B before he realizes he is hurt and goes to a knee. Before the umpire can call time the DC is out of the dugout and to F2 to check on him.

So the question - is the coach ejected?

Disclaimer: I was not at the game, catcher was my 13 year old son. Other than a baseball imprint on his ass and a bit of a stiff neck he was/is fine. I know what the outcome was but wanted to see how some of you would rule on this.

[moblue]

Any level where there are kids involved, the coach is fine by my standards. If there is any interference involved, we'll deal with it later. Any coach I've ever seen doesn't run out onto the field for a minor injury. If they're out there of their own initiative during a live ball, then that kid is probably hurt fairly bad. At least, they think so at the time.

[dleavitt39]

If anything, I give the coach a pat on the back for actually giving a damn about the players. More often than not a kid is hurt and the coach just tells him to rub some dirt on it. My pregame includes the statement "If a player is hurt on a play, you don't wait for me to wave you on, you go take care of your players" I don't care if it's correct or not, same as my post earlier about the injury at the plate. It's safety, safety, safety. If I get myself in hot water for looking out for the kids, then I'll start looking for a new line of work.

DL

[UmpJM]

bikerider,

Not if I'm the umpire.

Plus, the ball is already dead on the R3's malicious contact/interference, so there's really no issue with the coach coming out to look after his player.

JM

[Mike Prince]

In PU's eyes the ball was not dead and DC went to the parking lot. From what my wife told me he had been on the PU all game and the PU used his entrance onto the field (claiming the ball was still live) as grounds for ejection. I purposely left that part out of the original post so as not to lay groundwork (that the DC had it coming anyway) and focus on the specific play.

Good news is my son is fine and has a story to tell now. He's about 5'5" and 130, the kid who "trucked" him (his words) was about 6'1" and 200lbs. The kid apologized to him after the game, funny thing was it was a Christian middle school they were playing.

Fitting end to the story is that my son F2 remained in the game and threw out R2 on the next play trying to steal third. Wish I had been there, only bad part about umpiring right now is that I miss a lot of his games.

[yawetag]

In PU's eyes the ball was not dead and DC went to the parking lot. From what my wife told me he had been on the PU all game and the PU used his entrance onto the field (claiming the ball was still live) as grounds for ejection. I purposely left that part out of the original post so as not to lay groundwork (that the DC had it coming anyway) and focus on the specific play.

First off, once the INT by the runner occurred, the ball was dead. The throw to 2B meant nothing -- the BR would be returned to 1B. Becuase the ball was dead, the coach didn't enter the field during a live ball. Therefore, no ejection.

Secondly, as far as I know, you can't eject during a live ball. Fed Rules, 10-1-6: Ejections will be made at the end of playing action.

Thirdly, the umpire obviously doesn't understand the spirit of the rule he enforced. I would hope the coach doesn't incur any future troubles for this, and I would hope that the parents of his team would stand behind his actions as well.

[HokieUmp]

If anything, I give the coach a pat on the back for actually giving a damn about the players. More often than not a kid is hurt and the coach just tells him to rub some dirt on it. My pregame includes the statement "If a player is hurt on a play, you don't wait for me to wave you on, you go take care of your players" I don't care if it's correct or not, same as my post earlier about the injury at the plate.

It's good that you don't care, then.

Okay, that's a bit harsh. Thing is, why do you feel the need to bring this up at a plate meeting?

1. "Legally, safely, and properly equipped?"

2. Game length (time or innings) and 'mercy' rule (if applicable)

3. Ground rules

Done.

It's safety, safety, safety. If I get myself in hot water for looking out for the kids, then I'll start looking for a new line of work.

I guess I don't get it. One, are we umpires, or another set of coaches/team moms/other parents? Two, sometimes kids get hurt, scary as that might be. I mean, not just in baseball, but riding bikes or skateboards (er, kids still DO that, right? - it's not all FaceSpace on the GooglyNet any more, is it?) or climbing a tree, or, well, lots of stuff. We can't wrap them in gauze. Three, again, I just don't see the horrific injuries, I guess, that lead to this 'safety, safety, safety' thing.

Maybe it's just as I said before - I just don't like people all that much. But actually, it's more than I think of myself as a representative of the game. (Not MLB, like the OBR section makes it sound, but in a bigger picture sense of The Game.) To make sure that the players and coaches aren't allowed to do what their instincts tell them to do - cheat like b:censored:ards - and that both teams have an equal chance to win, within the range of their talents, at least. I won't put their lives at stake, but my games are generally not like the trench warfare of WWI, with waves of players dropping like flies, so I can't fully speak to that.

Having said all that, from the OP, I don't know that I would have EJ'd the coach, even if he was out on a live ball, since his intentions were good. But since the player in question wasn't dying, I'd have a few things to say to him about coming out on a live ball. And - since we now know he'd spent the game to that point trying to get tossed - I have to admit that might be a factor for me. HTBT, I suppose.

Edited April 24, 2010 by HokieUmp
added the last para.

[JaxRolo]

I see no reason to eject the coach.

[poppyfor3]

Babe Ruth baseball is a GAME. As umpires we can "fix" almost anything. How many of us surrendered our MD license to umpire? Anyone care to explain how calling time for an injury upsets the cosmic balance of Baseball? Rant off!

[dleavitt39]

It's good that you don't care, then.

Okay, that's a bit harsh. Thing is, why do you feel the need to bring this up at a plate meeting?

The reason I bring it up is two fold. 1. The referee on my football crew says this at every pre-game and it's stuck with me. 2. Me saying this is not intended for an injury where little jimmy cut his finger. This is meant for a severe injury, god forbid that it happens. Case in point. Kid with a broken arm writhing around on the ground. I'm killing the play, and I want a coach out there before I have to turn to beckon them on.

Maybe it's just as I said before - I just don't like people all that much.

misanthrope's unite

But actually, it's more than I think of myself as a representative of the game. (Not MLB, like the OBR section makes it sound, but in a bigger picture sense of The Game.) To make sure that the players and coaches aren't allowed to do what their instincts tell them to do - cheat like b:censored:ards - and that both teams have an equal chance to win, within the range of their talents, at least.

Stopping for an injury is not the same as letting coaches/players make a travesty of the game.

I won't put their lives at stake, but my games are generally not like the trench warfare of WWI, with waves of players dropping like flies, so I can't fully speak to that.

By no means are the games by me trench warfare of WWI, perhaps just from the Civil War

But in any case, I don't see many injuries, but in my opinion, one injury is too many, and if by not killing a play or having a coach out there it could be made worse. ie: kid does something stupid while hurt, and hurts himself more, I don't want that over my head. I'd much rather kill a play and take heat for killing a live ball rather than get in hot water for not killing the play, the kid possibly getting hurt more, and god forbid get sued for waiting too long.

DL

[mstaylor]

Killing a play or not killing a play changes with age. I rarely stop play for an injury if I think it is minor. If by not stopping puts him at risk then certainly I stop it. If a kid goes down and the coach comes right out then I am not throwing him out, that's nuts. Most injuries are not life threatening, they may be bad, they may be ugly but rarely does waiting 30 seconds make a difference. Broken bones and busted noses are ugly injuries but there is no compelling to stop play unless it could lead to further injury.

[kcfan102]

There is only one way I'm stopping a play.

1. Somebody gets hit in the head or chest and falls like a bag of rocks.

Those injuries are time critical and God forbid I never have to come across that situation.

Anything else, play on. Once the ball comes to rest, I'll call time on my own and parents and coaches can go on their shenanigans. Injuries don't concern me unless the catcher gets hurt.

I'm not going to eject the coach though. That's a bit harsh.