Plays at the Plate

[basejones]

I don’t like to criticize any umpire in an open forum, but there was a play in the Angles – Yankees game on April 15th that I think we can all learn from.

We have talked until we are blue in the face about where to take plays at the plate - 1st extended, 3rd extended, the point, in fair, etc. and each one has their benefits. In my association we teach two methods. The preferred is start at the point of the plate, read the play, and adjust to not be blocked out. If someone is struggling with that, we have them go to 3rd extended since this will give you a good look on most plays.

Now to the situation. Matsui is on 2nd with Napoli at the plate for the Angels. Napoli hits a single to center and Matsui tries to score. Granderson charges hard and throws to Posada to get Matsui at the plate for the 3rd out, or so it seems. Watch the first part of Granderson’s highlights at the below link.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7469019

As you can see, Jerry Layne took this play from 3rd extended, or maybe a step to the point of the plate. Does Matsui look out? Yes and no arguments from anyone. Now go back and try to stop the video when Matsui is starting his slide. Posada is completely blocking Layne’s view of the plate and potential tag. Layne tried to lean to get a better look, but had Layne gone one or two more steps to his right, I think he sees the play completely different.

This is not a bash Jerry Layne post, but rather, I would like everyone to see is that there isn’t a magic spot for plays at the plate. I am a firm believer in starting at the point, reading the play and adjusting to try to get the best view. Does that mean I’ll be at 1st extended – maybe, 3rd extended – maybe, further around than either – maybe.

Randy

[JaxRolo]

Yes you try to get the best position yo can but sometimes things happen so fast that you may have started in good position but the circumstances changed and you just have to call what you see.

[Guest]

While we should not rip each other, for the most part, video evidence is a strong learning tool that we can use to our advantage.

The first question that begs to be asked here is: why set up on 3BLEx?

Well, with all the advanced scouting upper level teams do, they know each individual player inside out and backwards - you expect most plays at the plate to be close - swipe tags most likely. What angle gives you the best look at a swipe tag? 3BLEx. Anyone doubting this, cue up the film from the game where McClelland and Scott booted their calls - J Layne had a swipe tag on the dish bang on, and the margin for error was about half an inch.

So we have established 3BLEx as a good position to take a call from. Why did Layne miss this then?

Jerry missed this because he got lazy. He set up camp and did not read the throw or the runner. If he did, he would have identified that the ball was going to arrive well before the runner and the tag would take place in front of the catcher.

This is where 1BLEx would serve someone well; most plays in amateur baseball are misreads by coaches resulting in their runner's being DOA at the plate - hence the basic position of 1BLEx as positioning for calls.

In recent years in MLB, we have noticed another trend - PU taking the call standing up the 1BL. I present two examples, one was being discussed on a thread earlier this week, the second resulted in the ejection of Cecil Cooper and Lance Berkman by Delfin Colon last year on a play at the plate where the runner was beaten by the ball, made a creative slide, and was tagged out "in front" of the catcher. In both instances, PU was moved up the 1BL and got the call correct. This position serves two benefits: first, obviously is the angle it gives to the play - a great look. The second is that it keeps PU out of the way of carnidge of a collision.

In this instance, Jerry should have moved to his right or left to get a better angle. No one cannot see the tag through a player. He was straightlined and had to take a guess - I guarantee if you stopped him on the street and asked him about this, he would admit he had no idea at the time what actually happened.

In closing, plays at the plate require constant vigilance, judging the runner's speed, quality of throw, direction of throw, and position of the catcher in order to determine what kind of play at the plate you will have, and where you position yourself accordingly. The methodology of how one positions themself is truly a matter of personal preference as long as you can see the play and are not too close to be caught up in any extraciricular activity.

[Umpire in Chief]

I think this will be a good discussion because it can help demonstrate how to take these calls.

Most recent tradition says to take the calls 3BLX, and even what is currently being taught in terms of lining up on the catchers left hip pocket wouldn't even give a good look.

This is where umpiring instinct comes in and being able to read the play.

I don't think this is a case of being lazy on Layne's part, I think the play blew up on him because Matsui slid directly into Posada which doesn't happen as much anymore. More times than not the player will go to one side (mainly outside) or the other and reach for the plate.

So being that Matsui came directly in Layne had little time to react, and leaned to get his best look, but was ultimately not in the best position for that play.

IMO Had Lane been able to take a step up the line more towards 1st he might have had a better look.

[Umpire in Chief]

I thought we'd jet more discussion on this... Great post and learning opportunity.

[BrianC14]

You know something? After seeing myself on video (over, and over, and over, and over) I'm not going to criticize anyone.

I found out the hard way - via an unblinking camera, just how lazy I can be.

See the thread "So you think you're good" in the Free For All section.

[jnazz]

West not layne

[dleavitt39]

Ok, I'm going to bite on this one. Just trying to find a better position for our level vs. MLB.

After doing a bit of research through these forums, I've found that most of us are doing LL/Travel ball up through HS games, and the occasional College games. What I've found after doing a bit of research, is that the main goal of setting up 3blx is to see a hook slide/sweep tag(please tell me if i'm missing a key component of why else we set up there). I don't know about you guys, but in all the games I've done, 9u travel up through JV HS, I've very rarely seen a hook slide. More of what I've seen is the runner trying to go straight in on his slide, whether it be because that's the line he thinks is best to get under the tag, or he doesn't know the throw is coming. To combat having the view that West got in the video, I've set up 1blx. I find that I'm in great position to see a banger at the plate because I can clearly see the leading edge of the plate. Another thing I've tried is 1blx and then 2-4 steps up the 3bl in foul territory. I find that this leaves me with a good view of the leading edge, as well as a descent angle for a sweep tag, and also lets me see if the ball was dropped/bobbled when the runner slides directly into the plate.

Any feedback would be appreciated on these positions. I guess I just find that more "kids" these days are going straight in versus sliding around, so when they go straight in and you're 3blx you're SOL.

Thanks!!

DL

[noumpere]

Any feedback would be appreciated on these positions. I guess I just find that more "kids" these days are going straight in versus sliding around, so when they go straight in and you're 3blx you're SOL.

I find just the opposite (but I don't do the lower levels you mentioned). Since F2 can't block the plate until he has the ball, he doesn't. So, either he has the ball in plenty of time (leading R3 to try to slide around) or he gets the ball just as R3 is sliding and then reaches for a tag.

3BLE is preferred 85% of the time. The tough one is where the swipe tag is to the "back" of the runner who has gone by. You need to move to see that one.

[basejones]

The point that I was trying to make and show by Jerry Layne’s video was that there is no magical spot. While the percentages may say one thing, we have to be able to read the play and be ready to adjust our position to get the best look possible. Unfortunately, I believe that this is a skill that is learned by being in the wrong position. We all learn from our own “mistakes”, but hopefully, we can learn from situations that other umpires face.

I will be using this video for umpire training in EOA.

Randy

[basejones]

Here’s another video that we can watch on taking plays at the plate. In this play, Eckstein hits a bases clearing double down the left field line. The percentage for this play would be up the 3rd baseline, so the starting point was closer to1st extended. However, as the play developed, Phil Cuzzi read that the throw was slightly offline, the runner was coming inside and there was going to be a swipe tag. So Cuzzi moved from 1st extended to 3rd extended to get a better look.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7707349

Randy

[Umpire in Chief]

Great example of adjusting to the situation. It appears Cuzzi made his big move when he noticed the runner coming on the inside.

[noumpere]

The point that I was trying to make and show by Jerry Layne’s video was that there is no magical spot. While the percentages may say one thing, we have to be able to read the play and be ready to adjust our position to get the best look possible. Unfortunately, I believe that this is a skill that is learned by being in the wrong position. We all learn from our own “mistakes”, but hopefully, we can learn from situations that other umpires face.

I will be using this video for umpire training in EOA.

Randy

Agreed.

Just another example of "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

[Thunderheads]

West not layne

wrong ....that was Jerry Layne