Dropped 3rd Strike with R1 Steeling

[mepetty]

Being new, I just wanted to see if I was right or wrong

One out R1 on first, R1 steels second with pitch. Batter swings and misses F2 drops 3rd strike. Batter beats out the throw to first. Coach comes out and complains that first was occupied at time of the pitch. I told him that because R1 stole second that made first un-occupied. Right or wrong?

R1 was clearly half way to second by the time the ball was released by F1.

[BrianC14]

Being new, I just wanted to see if I was right or wrong

One out R1 on first, R1 steels second with pitch. Batter swings and misses F2 drops 3rd strike. Batter beats out the throw to first. Coach comes out and complains that first was occupied at time of the pitch. I told him that because R1 stole second that made first un-occupied. Right or wrong?

R1 was clearly half way to second by the time the ball was released by F1.

Coach was right. You were wrong.

R1 could have been 9/10 of the way to 2B, it still wouldn't matter. Adding the word "clearly" doesn't support your case. either.

At the time of pitch R1 had legally occupied first base.

PS: The word is "stealing".

[rgillette]

What base the runner occupies is always determined by the last legally acquired base at the time of the pitch. So in this instance, even though the runner had left 1st, he still is ruled to be occuping 1st base at the time of the pitch. 1st base is still occupied with only one out so the batter is out. The runner from 1st is still liable to be put out should there be a play on him. If there were two outs then by your description of the play the batter would be safe at first.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome to both of you!

This is a frequent question that can be a bit difficult to grasp at first, but we're here to help. Good answers guys.

[semper_fi_72]

Coach was right. You were wrong.

R1 could have been 9/10 of the way to 2B, it still wouldn't matter. Adding the word "clearly" doesn't support your case. either.

At the time of pitch R1 had legally occupied first base.

PS: The word is "stealing".

Had same sit last week at LL Jr game.

I was on bases

R1 and R2.

Dropped 3K, to back stop. R1 and R2 advance without a throw.

Batter runs to first.

I turn to him and say your out.

I got no argument from anyone.

Next day I get a call from a buddy who worked 2nd game with same guy on the plate.

He asks why I did not allow a Batter to take 1B on a Dropped 3K.

I told him the sit.

He said PU disallowed a D3K, with no one on, in second game because of my action in first game.

He definitely did not learn D3K at the 5 week Wendelstedt School he paid for.

[Stan W.]

He definitely did not learn D3K at the 5 week Wendelstedt School he paid for.

Ouch........

[JaxRolo]

Being new, I just wanted to see if I was right or wrong

One out R1 on first, R1 steels second with pitch. Batter swings and misses F2 drops 3rd strike. Batter beats out the throw to first. Coach comes out and complains that first was occupied at time of the pitch. I told him that because R1 stole second that made first un-occupied. Right or wrong?

R1 was clearly half way to second by the time the ball was released by F1.

The coach was definitely correct (for once:shrug: ) Just make sure you read read read rules and understand them. Ask questions if not sure.

[mstaylor]

The coach was definitely correct (for once:shrug: ) Just make sure you read read read rules and understand them. Ask questions if not sure.

When you think you understand then ask about it to make sure you do indeed know. Many times you will think you have something right but you may be a little off. I know that was true for me coming up.

[kcfan102]

Had same sit last week at LL Jr game.

He definitely did not learn D3K at the 5 week Wendelstedt School he paid for.

Oooo :stir

[moblue]

When you think you understand then ask about it to make sure you do indeed know. Many times you will think you have something right but you may be a little off. I know that was true for me coming up.

I second that. There were some rules that I spent years thinking I knew, then once I got around other experienced umpires (and got on this forum), I found out I was wrong about a few things.

[mstaylor]

I still find that.

[Umpire in Chief]

Exactly, plus rules and interpretations will change over time.

[byjosh]

I had this happen to me last Saturday in a game. Instinctively as an umpire I looked at 1st base and there was no runner there because he was almost to 2nd base. SO on the droped third strike I stepped back to give the safe sign. The runner reached first base ok as second was stolen but 1st base is occupied at the time of the pitch. I momentary lapse of concentration there. Bottom line be aware of the situation before a pitch happens and you will be ok. We called the runner out and got it correct. Everyone has to see these things first to get it right the next time. I am a big believer in that.