Blown Coverage

[Mr Umpire]

This came up on another board.

You are umpiring with someone you have never been with before. Assuming the pregame was done properly.

You are the base umpire, with no one on the bases, you are in position A, no outs. The batter hits a trouble ball to right center field; with both the F8 & F9 converging to what may be a diving catch. You head out telling your partner that you are going out and properly head out. The fielders both pull up on the ball just before they run into each other and the ball bounces between them. F8 quickly retrieves the ball and rifles it to F6 on 2nd base for a banger play.

You notice that PU is still behind home plate watching the game. Since you are closest to the play, (although out of position and not your call) – everyone is looking at you for the call.

What would you do?

[kristoffae]

Get an angle and make the call. Whatever I have is going to be easier to sell than that of the PU who has decided to drop anchor 130 ft away. If there is an argument than so be it. Experienced coaches at the upper levels of HS and above (especially down here) know whose coverage that play SHOULD have been and will know that the PU has just left you out to dry so they will tailor their argument accordingly. After the game, the PU is getting a piece of my mind and possibly my foot.

[dawg-man]

Definitely get the best angle you can get and make the call. Certainly adress this issue with your partner after the game and if you rode together I hope you drove. I was mentoring a new umpire in a jv game a few years ago and this actually happened. The coach did come out and talk to me and his first words to me were" I know that is not supposed to be your call". Most coaches know. He was not upset with the call just the lack of hustle by my partner.

[Umpire in Chief]

Wow what a no-win situation.

I agree with the others, if I can make the call with any amount of confidence I will, and sell the heck out of it. If a discussion follows, I'm going to have to take it. While I'm not the one who should have made the call, I made it none the less. And while my partner left me in the lurch, I'd never tell the coach 'that was supposed to be my partners call...' because that doesn't matter much to him, even if he does know the proper mechanics. Save the blame for the post game.

[PeteBooth]

Assuming the pregame was done properly

.

IMO, if you are going to post another thread from another FORUM simply copy and paste it because you added things such as "assuming the pre-game was done properly" and you did not give the age of the players.

here is the OP that's currently at umpire.org

Traveling team game, 12-13 year olds, OBR, 90 foot bases, you have never worked with this particular umpire before, but by reputation he is O.K. but thinks he is better than that.

Score and inning doesn’t matter, but will say top of the 4th going 7 innings. H: 1 V: 1.

You are the base umpire, with no one on the bases, you are in position A, no outs. The Batter hits a trouble ball to right center field; with both the F8 & F9 converging to what may be a diving catch. You head out telling your partner that you are going out and properly head out. The fielders both pull up on the ball just before they run into each other and the ball bounces between them. F8 quickly retrieves the ball and rifles it to F6 on 2nd base for a banger play.

You notice that U1 is still behind home plate watching the game. Since you are closest to the play, (although out of position and not your call) – everyone is looking at you for the call.

What would you do?

Now let the posters answers

Pete Booth

[Mr Umpire]

.

IMO, if you are going to post another thread from another FORUM simply copy and paste it because you added things such as "assuming the pre-game was done properly" and you did not give the age of the players.

Now let the posters answers

Pete Booth

OK. For 1, age is immaterial. Position A is Position A. I don't care which field you are on. 2, I can add or change as I feel. The OP from umpire.org doesn't specify if a pregame was done or not. So, commenting on doing one is possibly inappropriate b/c the OP didn't say it was or was not done. It may have been done in detail.

So, IMO, stick with the OP as posted as others have said, even on this forum. My OP says "Assuming a pregame was done properly" and that is my OP.

Thank you very much.

Also, at this point, a pregame is useless. Who cares once this occurs b/c a pregame can't be done at this point. The OP is about during a game, not before a game.

I want to know how others would handle it after it happens and not see 10 posts about how a pregame should have been done just b/c it wasn't mentioned in the OP. So, I felt like covering that aspect before any posts were made about it.

Thanks for the hijack attempt.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[PeteBooth]

Thanks for the hijack attempt

.

From your OP

This came up on another board.

I simply posted the OP from another board. How is that hyjacking?

You referred to another Board not me so I simply posted the OP that you referred to in your opening remarks so that others could see EXACTLY what you are referring to.

Also, the age of the players DOES make a difference. Generally speaking when you are dealing with 11/12 yr. old baseball you will be working with less experience officials.

Pete Booth

[mazzamouth]

From your OP

This came up on another board.

I simply posted the OP from another board. How is that hyjacking?

You referred to another Board not me so I simply posted the OP that you referred to in your opening remarks so that others could see EXACTLY what you are referring to.

Also, the age of the players DOES make a difference. Generally speaking when you are dealing with 11/12 yr. old baseball you will be working with less experience officials.

Pete Booth

ok you two need a timeout...LOL can you tell I stay at home with my kids...

as for I agree with mr.umpire.. who cares if a pregame was done... sounds like the PU fell asleep.....

So if this was me, and I see the PU cleaning his nails with his lineup card.. I'm making the call.... I dont care...I will explain to which ever caoch I need to.. " coach, I it was not my call, I know but I was closer and got a good look at the play and saw ( whatever happen, safe or out).. and then, I will give the signal to my partner that we need to talk after the half inning..( someone is getting a ass chewing.

[Mr Umpire]

From your OP

This came up on another board.

I simply posted the OP from another board. How is that hyjacking?

You referred to another Board not me so I simply posted the OP that you referred to in your opening remarks so that others could see EXACTLY what you are referring to.

Also, the age of the players DOES make a difference. Generally speaking when you are dealing with 11/12 yr. old baseball you will be working with less experience officials.

Pete Booth

Again, going outside the OP. Level of the PU makes no difference. Even if he is a senior umpire and went out on all of the other plays as he is suppose to, he didn't on this one. So what if he was a rookie or a 20 year vet. The play happened as it is and now something has to be done.

If he is a vet or a rookie, I am owning the call at that point. I will not be asking him for his opinion regardless of his level unless the coach is arguing that the fielder dropped the ball. And, I will be talking to him about why he didn't cover 2B regardless if he knows to or not.

Changing the situation is hijacking the thread so it can go off on some tangent concept. Like these posts. My OP is different than that one as I am covering more than a 12 y/o game since this can happen at many levels. And, I want focus on the situation not a bunch of 'what ifs' or 'if you would have done this' posts. Which you did on the other thread and I wanted to eliminate those b/c they were never a part of the OP in the first place.

[Mr Umpire]

So if this was me, and I see the PU cleaning his nails with his lineup card.. I'm making the call.... I dont care...I will explain to which ever caoch I need to.. " coach, I it was not my call, I know but I was closer and got a good look at the play and saw ( whatever happen, safe or out).. and then, I will give the signal to my partner that we need to talk after the half inning..( someone is getting a ass chewing.

I agree with owning the call and whatever BU calls stands. But, I will not be telling the coach "It wasn't my call".

If he knows that, then he can say it and have fun chewing the PU. But if he doesn't, I am going to simply say "I went out on the ball. Then, I had to make the call from where I was". I'll take the heat for the supposed "missed" call. I will take the blame for being out of position or whatever he has to say to have the appearance of team work on the field (even though, there wasn't any) and confidence in my calls.

But, as soon as we get away from everyone, I am going to find out what happened. If he doesn't have a good answer, I will not be going out on a ball again.

[mstaylor]

I don't think the age of the players make a difference or the relative experience level of the umpires. It happened and you have to save it the best way possible. What you have to decide on the field is if you are going to go out any more after that. That is a feel thing and you can look at your partner and know whether he braincramped or just is clueless. If you think he brain cramped then try going out again. If you think he is clueless then stay in from then on.

[zm1283]

I worked three games on a Saturday last year in a JV tournament with a guy who I think had no or very little experience. I took the plate for the first two games and he strapped it on for the last game. We pregamed and he acted like we were on the same page. Needless to say, that wasn't the case. In his plate game, he literally did not leave the dirt circle once the entire game. We had a first-to-third rotation that I had to call as BU because he was standing at home plate.

That one is somewhat excusable since he was brand new. The other one happened in the summer in a huge "varsity" summer tournament over the 4th of July. The guy I was working with was standing about 15 feet up the third base line when we had a runner on first coming to third on a base hit. He called the runner out (kicked it of course) and took all kinds of hell for it. It's frustrating how many umpires don't know simple mechanics.

[mstaylor]

The worse experience like that was a first to third that the PU should have taken, called me off and never left the plate. I almost didn't even look because it was his. The only reason I got any look was because I turned with the ball. I was nowhere near in position but I had to make the call. The bad part was it was the second half of double nines in a college tournament.

[Mr Umpire]

ok you two need a timeout...LOL can you tell I stay at home with my kids...

But, he started it. :mad:

[mazzamouth]

But, he started it.

LOL good one...

[dawg-man]

Just want to make sure that in my game I did not say " it was not my call. '' I took ownership when I turned saw what was happening and made the call. The coach said he knew it was not my call and my response was that it became mine when I made it. He is a veteran coach who really knows our mechanics. I would never put my partner undr the bus no matter what.

[BrianC14]

The worse experience like that was a first to third that the PU should have taken, called me off and never left the plate. I almost didn't even look because it was his. The only reason I got any look was because I turned with the ball. I was nowhere near in position but I had to make the call. The bad part was it was the second half of double nines in a college tournament.

Ref: in the boldface type: I'm trying how to picture this... he called you off but never left the plate? What the f*ck, over?

Personally, I'd let the SOB hang with that BS.

As to the OP: Let him hang, too. The fact is, it isn't your call to make, since you went out. If the coach doesn't like it, it still isn't your call to make, so if someone is that dense, then I'd turn Mr. Irate Coach right over to Mr. Lazy Umpire. And if the plate dork doesn't like it, then maybe he can find another hobby.

I'm sorry, (no, I'm really not) but if your partner doesn't know his job, why should that bother you? :BD:

[mstaylor]

Brian:

That was one of several times he threw me under the bus in that game. He came to the plate meeting and after intros the first thing he says is,"If my zone is a little off bear with me, I've been doing fastpitch softball all week." This is when you know you are going to have a long day. This was DIII but very good DIII. The home team is usually in the top 25 or better, top 10 quite a few times and at least one DIII CWS win.

[Finnblue]

This came up on another board.

You are umpiring with someone you have never been with before. Assuming the pregame was done properly.

You are the base umpire, with no one on the bases, you are in position A, no outs. The batter hits a trouble ball to right center field; with both the F8 & F9 converging to what may be a diving catch. You head out telling your partner that you are going out and properly head out. The fielders both pull up on the ball just before they run into each other and the ball bounces between them. F8 quickly retrieves the ball and rifles it to F6 on 2nd base for a banger play.

You notice that PU is still behind home plate watching the game. Since you are closest to the play, (although out of position and not your call) – everyone is looking at you for the call.

What would you do?

Have I told similar story in here, too? Same thing happened to me. I was standing by the foul line almost as far from second base as the PU. I looked at him, standing there with his mask on, making no move. So I simply spread my arms and called the runner safe. The OC didn't complain to me at all, but he started riding my partner - obviously he knew who should have been at second base making that call. Ca five minutes later my partner tossed him out... For some reason I had no sympathy towards the PU.

[BrianC14]

Brian:

That was one of several times he threw me under the bus in that game. He came to the plate meeting and after intros the first thing he says is,"If my zone is a little off bear with me, I've been doing fastpitch softball all week." This is when you know you are going to have a long day. This was DIII but very good DIII. The home team is usually in the top 25 or better, top 10 quite a few times and at least one DIII CWS win.

Mike... OMG.... Mike - please - PLEASE tell you're not saying that a COLLEGE baseball umpire did this... please?

If so, I guess it's poetic justice... we have so very little college baseball where I live that the wait list to get into even D3 is miles long, and there are some outstanding umpires in my area who could work those games, but can't due to the simple math of it all. And yet there are clowns like this guy in your area that are working college ball (when, from the sounds of it, they shouldn't even be working T-ball!) :2cents:

[mazzamouth]

Mike... OMG.... Mike - please - PLEASE tell you're not saying that a COLLEGE baseball umpire did this... please?

If so, I guess it's poetic justice... we have so very little college baseball where I live that the wait list to get into even D3 is miles long, and there are some outstanding umpires in my area who could work those games, but can't due to the simple math of it all. And yet there are clowns like this guy in your area that are working college ball (when, from the sounds of it, they shouldn't even be working T-ball!)

you should live in the Kansas city area, we have some guys who are calling NAIA that really shouldn't.... there is so much college baseball out here that it is pathetic ...LOL

[mstaylor]

Mike... OMG.... Mike - please - PLEASE tell you're not saying that a COLLEGE baseball umpire did this... please?

If so, I guess it's poetic justice... we have so very little college baseball where I live that the wait list to get into even D3 is miles long, and there are some outstanding umpires in my area who could work those games, but can't due to the simple math of it all. And yet there are clowns like this guy in your area that are working college ball (when, from the sounds of it, they shouldn't even be working T-ball!)

I'm afraid he was and one of the biggest whiners I ever saw. He did the same thing to another umpire twice in one game. He was so mad that he stopped on the way home, called the assigner to black him off as a partner. One of the worst umpires I have ever worked with.

[MCLEOD36]

Choo Choo....Time to throw partner under the bus. But DONT do it on the field, do it after. After thinking long and hard on situations like these, I tend to talk to them off the field after the game. If it doesnt sink in, talk to assignor, it is just NO FUN working with dopes...

[alcrisp]

Your out on the ball, make the catch/no catch, let your partner make the call from 127 feet away, and then have a serious talk with him in between innings. Thats if WW III doesn't happen because of the blown coverage on your partner. He needs to live and die by his responsibility and if he ask you for help after the call, tell him you can only help if he's missing information about the play (ball, tag, etc.) because thats his judgement call. If this happens, make sure you tell him that he will reverse the call if needed and explain he will tell the coach that he changed the call based upon what info changed the call if the coach comes out on you. :kissass:

[Rick48]

Okay, maybe I'm a SOB, but WHAT IS THE PU GETTING PAID FOR???? Especially in college ball!!!!! If I make his calls for him, am I getting his paycheck? When I go out, I'M OUT - that's my responsibility! Let him live or die with his OWN responsiblities! Maybe then the assigner won't use him anymore and I won't have to deal with this "stuff"! Sheesh, or maybe he can stick with a 60' diamond!

Edited April 14, 2010 by Rick48