Running Start?

[mstaylor]

I don't quite understand your meaning. I took carolinablue's post to mean the jr ump came to him to make sure of enforcement. Many young guys are unsure how to enforce something or lack confidence to do what they know. I don't have a problem with an inexperienced umpire checking an enforcement question.

[carolinablue]

Yeah, he knew he couldn't leave early even on a basehit. He wasn't exactly sure how to handle it. Lets face it, that's not the most conventional rule in the book and it can be ambiguous. My point was that, since it was a junior umpire making a somewhat unusual call, it really didn't matter if he nailed it, there was going to be some questions.

[kylejt]

Actually, 7.13 is pretty easy to understand. It just has a lot of examples in the book. The trouble comes when the managers aren't up to speed on the rule, and understandably question the sanity of the umpires enforcing it. I'd tilt toward blaming the UIC of the league for not educating the masses beforehand. A four minute talk about 7.13 in the preseason will halt the craziness, and five minute game delays.

[mstaylor]

I had a Majors manager that threw a fit when I brought a runner back to third. I quickly shut him down because he was going to be personal, not questioning the rule but complaining that I was the problem, we had a long history. His coach was coaching third, it was his son I brought back, simply asked if I could show him after the game what I was calling. Sure enough, after the game I showed him the example that was the exact play we had. He thanked me and said he certainly couldn't argue black letter law and that he learned something.

7.13 isn't that difficult but like a lot of rules coaches don't make themselves familar before it bits them. If coaches made themselves more aware they would make their jobs easier, not to mention our's.

[widac]

What is this 7.13 of which you speak? :rollinglaugh:

[kylejt]

What is this 7.13 of which you speak?

From the Little League rule book

[mstaylor]

What is this 7.13 of which you speak?

7.13 is the LL rule for closed bases. It is a leaving early run that requires you to return as many runners as possible when somebody leaves before the ball reaches the batter. It isn't complicated but the enforcement can get interesting. You gauge the value of a hit then bring whoever back as far as you can. One interesting enforcement is when you have bases loaded and the batter his a double but thries to stretch it to a triple. If someone leaves early and he gets tagged out then you return all three runners. If he had stayed at second then you would return R1 to third.

[moblue]

One interesting enforcement is when you have bases loaded and the batter his a double but thries to stretch it to a triple. If someone leaves early and he gets tagged out then you return all three runners.

Then step back and watch the firework show begin when you inform the OC. :D

[mstaylor]

Oh Yeah! Some them will come unglued. I had a Majors flip the script on me a few years ago in an allstar game. He had a kid that violated at least ten times before it made a difference, he was leaving early but coming back to the base. He finally left early from third early and I put him back. The manager felt I couldn't call that at that time, I never saw in the rule when to call and when not to. Later in the game I told a player in the other dugout that he couldn't swing a bat in the dugout. He felt he should be ejected. I told him no. He asked to come talk to me, I told him no, there was nothing to discuss. He seemed amazed that I wouldn't talk to him. I repeated no and told the PU to play. I thought we were going to have to get the AED.

Forgot to add he was an ex pro player.

[MCLEOD36]

Widac.

That was funny, I sat here and went leaving early. I didnt know you guys were referring to LL rules. That is the rule in LL, but ONLY LL.... Thus the confusion.

John

[mstaylor]

Widac.

That was funny, I sat here and went leaving early. I didnt know you guys were referring to LL rules. That is the rule in LL, but ONLY LL.... Thus the confusion.

John

Actually, Dixie and Cal Ripkin have closed base rules too, I just don't know the number.

[widac]

Cal Ripken 9 yr. old District Tourney. OBR

At this level, the players were not allowed to leave the base until the ball had reached home plate. There was one player that had a very unusual leadoff technique which I wondered if it was considered a "running start" or not. What he would do is put one foot behind the bag (in foul territory on 1B) and would start moving it forward as soon as the ball left the pitcher's hand. This usually resulted in him leaving the bag right as the ball reached home plate. Since I had to watch for multiple runners leaving early, as well as know when the ball reached home, I used peripheral vision to watch for movement. He threw me off several times, and I believe I called him for leaving the bag early more than once. It was a pain to have to deal with.

I'm wondering if his "technique" for leading off was legal. I never said anything during the tournament because I had no rule I could think of that he was actually violating. I don't think it classifies as a running start, but maybe it does. If I didn't describe how he was leading off well enough, think about how softball players start out when they run the bases, with one foot behind the bag, moving on the release.

To get back to the OP, this was Ripken ball, you can't leave early, and what he's describing is the way it's done in SB. You can have your front foot on the bag and stride with the rear foot, effectively getting a start without leaving early. The SB coaches I know call it "The rolling start". Totally legal.

[widac]

And mstaylor, your sig is freakin' me out a little :)

[mstaylor]

It just shows you your information. If I read one of my posts it shows me mine. It's a frriendly reminder to not get careless on the internet with information. :)

[BT_Blue]

It just shows you your information. If I read one of my posts it shows me mine.

I didnt even think about that at all. Your right Brian... its starting to freak me out too.

[HugoTafurst]

It just shows you your information. If I read one of my posts it shows me mine. It's a frriendly reminder to not get careless on the internet with information.

Keeps ya honest, too......