NLDS Phillies / Rockies Umpiring Sloppy?

[therefump]

Anyone notice the number of "misques" the crew working the Phillies/Rockies games. For example,

Game 1: 3 bad calls (2 for phillies 1 for rockies)

Game 3: 2 bad calls on bases and 1 missed balk by Madson (PHL)

Game 4: missed call at first base allowing PHL runner to stay

I don't like to criticize the Pros but for the playoffs this is a bit much. Also, the union changed to rules for who gets to do playoffs. I am not 100% sure but I believe it's not as much on merit vs. seniority. Maybe this is the issue.

Full disclosure, I am a diehard Phillies fan but I try and be objective.

Thoughts?

[frenchblue]

There is now a clause in the union's contract that allows all MLB umpire's to work playoff games in a rotation type deal. It used to be that who performed well in the regular season got postseason gigs.

Now, it is basically a rotation. The umpires don't have out perform any other umpires in the regular season to get to the playoffs. If the coach's have to out coach the other coach's, and the players have to out perform the other players in order to get to the playoffs, why do the umpires get off the hook? It's not like one year the Cardinals get into the playoffs, and the next year the Pirates do. This is basically the same thing. There are most definently better umpires then others (as much as it hurts to say that, but lets face the truth).

I have seen many missed calls this postseason. Phil Cuzzi's missed fair/foul call in the Yankees-Twins game 2 call comes into mind. Also CB Bucknor's missed calls in the Angles-Sox series. Even Greg Gibson had a missed call @ 3rd in game 1 of the Sox-Angles series.

Once teams start rotating in and out of the playoffs, then it will be time for umpires to. Until then, I believe umpires should have to work and out perform their peers to get to the playoffs.

The playoffs aren't only for teams, they SHOULD be for umpires as well...

My .10 cents

[carolinablue]

The announcers had a great comment tonight. They said the Rockies coach had argued for the cycle. Once at each base. I thought that was pretty good.

[Umpire in Chief]

I've been avoiding this topic like the plague. Like many of you I'm known at work and socially as "the umpire" so I get all the questions of how could the ump mis....

Undoubtedly this has already been a rough post season for our MLB friends.

Buck Martinez had a great line the other night concerning Bucknor's calls when he said something to the effect of (was watching upstairs and didn't have the benefit of the DVR to get the quote exact), 'Umpiring is tough, but the majority of calls umpires miss are due to bad plays by the players. Had the two throws to Youkilis been on target we wouldn't be talking about this right now.' An accurate and classy statement.

Yes, there have been some missed calls some more difficult from the others and it's a tough pill to swallow. Many don't believe this but it is actually toughest on the umpires who make the call. But this is no reason to expand replay.

[BrianC14]

I've been avoiding this topic like the plague. Like many of you I'm known at work and socially as "the umpire" so I get all the questions of how could the ump mis....

Undoubtedly this has already been a rough post season for our MLB friends.

Buck Martinez had a great line the other night concerning Bucknor's calls when he said something to the effect of (was watching upstairs and didn't have the benefit of the DVR to get the quote exact), 'Umpiring is tough, but the majority of calls umpires miss are due to bad plays by the players. Had the two throws to Youkilis been on target we wouldn't be talking about this right now.' An accurate and classy statement.

Yes, there have been some missed calls some more difficult from the others and it's a tough pill to swallow. Many don't believe this but it is actually toughest on the umpires who make the call. But this is no reason to expand replay.

I get that from time to time as well.

Usually my response is,

"Well, the greatest hitters in the history of baseball are considered successful when in fact, they typically DON'T get a hit roughly 2 out of 3 times at bat. Umpires get one call in a thousand wrong, and they're to be considered failures?"

[PeteBooth]

Anyone notice the number of "misques" the crew working the Phillies/Rockies games. For example,

Game 1: 3 bad calls (2 for phillies 1 for rockies)

Game 3: 2 bad calls on bases and 1 missed balk by Madson (PHL)

Game 4: missed call at first base allowing PHL runner to stay

I don't like to criticize the Pros but for the playoffs this is a bit much. Also, the union changed to rules for who gets to do playoffs. I am not 100% sure but I believe it's not as much on merit vs. seniority. Maybe this is the issue.

Full disclosure, I am a diehard Phillies fan but I try and be objective.

Thoughts?

I know you mentioned the Phillies / Rockies series but I am surprised ALL the Boards are not Buzzing concering the blown call by the LFU in the Twinkees / Yanks series.

A clear cut- double turned into a Foul ball.

You do not need 6 umpires. IMO, it's like us amateurs working in a 3 or 4 person crew at the end of the year. We are used to 2 man and it's difficult to adjust using 3 and 4 because we are not used to it.

IMO, it all boils down to MLB's fault, meaning they do not invest in the Minor league program and thus we are NOT getting the best of the best.

Until you make it to the BIG TIME you earn peanuts. The UIC at the Triple A level makes only about $35-40k. Also, you only have so many years to advance then MLB sends you a letter that says they no longer require your services. No severance pay no nothing. How is that kind of system going to attract someone.

You have to be young, no attachments (unless you come from money) and be willing to work for peanuts.

IMO, if we want to see umpiring at the major league level improve then they MUST invest in the minor league program. Bt invest I mean make the salary levels better so that you get more to choose from.

Also, I do not KNOW what type of rating system they have for the umpires.

It's funny in that we sometimes chastize the umpires at the LLWS and then look at what we see on TV. It's my gut that IR will expand in the near future.

FWIW I know we all make our share of bad calls but one would think that the umpiring at the highest level where they earn BiG bucks would be better then what it is.

Pete Booth

Edited October 14, 2009 by PeteBooth

[LMSANS]

There is now a clause in the union's contract that allows all MLB umpire's to work playoff games in a rotation type deal. It used to be that who performed well in the regular season got postseason gigs.

Now, it is basically a rotation. The umpires don't have out perform any other umpires in the regular season to get to the playoffs. If the coach's have to out coach the other coach's, and the players have to out perform the other players in order to get to the playoffs, why do the umpires get off the hook? It's not like one year the Cardinals get into the playoffs, and the next year the Pirates do. This is basically the same thing. There are most definently better umpires then others (as much as it hurts to say that, but lets face the truth).

I have seen many missed calls this postseason. Phil Cuzzi's missed fair/foul call in the Yankees-Twins game 2 call comes into mind. Also CB Bucknor's missed calls in the Angles-Sox series. Even Greg Gibson had a missed call @ 3rd in game 1 of the Sox-Angles series.

Once teams start rotating in and out of the playoffs, then it will be time for umpires to. Until then, I believe umpires should have to work and out perform their peers to get to the playoffs.

The playoffs aren't only for teams, they SHOULD be for umpires as well...

My .10 cents

Devil's advocate (there should be a smiley for this)

Umpires are not competitors. The umpires job is to adjudicate the contest to keep it as fair as possible. (No, that is not in the dictionary or the MLBUM definitions.) So if the umpires start competing for the post $ea$on work, why not make sure your partner(s) fall under the bus so you get the work.

My understanding of the ratings of MLB umpires is that the difference between the best and the worst is less than 10 percentage points (I don't know the exact numbers). I'm not sure if you took the best team in the playoffs and the 6th seed, you would have that close of a result.

Umpires are probably no better or worse than they have ever been. But they are scrutinized more closely than they have ever been. And that will only increase as time and technology moves on.

We make the same mistakes on our fields, but the media frenzy is more constrained. These guys are where they are because of their skills, tenacity and a little bit of luck. Let's sit back, enjoy the game and do as they do, hopefully learn from our (and others) mistakes.

:fuel:

[carolinablue]

I don't know what it is about the post season but it seems there are more bangers and strange plays than usual. I used to think it just seems like it because it was magnified and to some degree that is true, but I think not completely. How many bangers at first have we seen already with high throws and F3 reaching ( did he hold the bag ), how about Fowler jumping over Utley last night. Utley's foul ball ( not called ) and then a banger at first on the same play complimented by a high throw. We haven't even got to the second series yet, there will be more before it's over. It may have to do with the best playing the best, I don't know. It seems like it goes from a game of inches to a game of half inches in the playoffs.

Edited October 13, 2009 by carolinablue

[BrianC14]

I don't know what it is about the post season but it seems there are more bangers and strange plays than usual. I used to think it just seems like it because it was magnified and to some degree that is true, but I think not completely. How many bangers at first have we seen already with high throws and F3 reaching ( did he hold the bag ), how about Fowler jumping over Utley last night. Utley's foul ball ( not called ) and then a banger at first on the same play complimented by a high throw. We haven't even got to the second series yet, there will be more before it's over. It may have to do with the best playing the best, I don't know. It seems like it goes from a game of inches to a game of half inches in the playoffs.

Cold temperatures? :WTF

[therefump]

Guys,

All GREAT comments. Thanks. I'm suprised this board is not buzzing about the other series as well. I really think that the ratings need to come from the crew chiefs and percolate upward. This crap of rotation, etc. sucks as we've seen. On the other hand, it's amazing the number of blown calls! You'd think the MLB Umpires would have more pride in their work. I agree that you do NOT need 6 umpires. I've read comments from them that it really goofs up their routine. I have worked 3/4 man games and it puts me out of sorts because I want to do toooooo much. It's like taking Ryan Howard (HR swinger) and telling him to hit opposite field (aka slow it down).

Anyway, we're in this together (MLB and US). Hopefully, they'll turn out a better product for the NL/AL Championship series.

Roy

[mstaylor]

As noted there is very little difference mathmatically between the rating of the highest and lowest. It similar to the question,"What do you call the last in the class at a medical school graduation? Doctor!" The worst pro umpire is still pretty dang good but people forget how fast the game is at the pro level. Also, they dopn't see the weird calls and rules interps on a regular basis like we do. At that level you expect them to do what they are supposed to do so the third world plays shouldn't happen. When it does they don't react to it as quickly as we would because we see it more and discuss it even more often. On the foul ball the only thing I can think was the glove block him at the last second. I can't speak to the other calls, didn't see them. The sum total of play-offs that I have seen so far is a little Monday night.

[Aging_Arbiter]

I get that from time to time as well.

Usually my response is,

"Well, the greatest hitters in the history of baseball are considered successful when in fact, they typically DON'T get a hit roughly 2 out of 3 times at bat. Umpires get one call in a thousand wrong, and they're to be considered failures?"

Brian~ My response is usually somewhat similar. What sport other than baseball can you fail 7 out of 10 times and still make it to the hall of fame? When the coach (wrangled dad) gives me that deer in the headlights look, I spell it out. Coach, a .300 average is almost a sure ticket into the hall of fame.......I missed 2 pitches tonight. Shall we do the math together?

THEN AGAIN.........like I have posted on other threads, I know the coaches and they know me. The 2nd part of my comment may not work for others. But the first part sure will!

[BrianC14]

Brian~ My response is usually somewhat similar. What sport other than baseball can you fail 7 out of 10 times and still make it to the hall of fame? When the coach (wrangled dad) gives me that deer in the headlights look, I spell it out. Coach, a .300 average is almost a sure ticket into the hall of fame.......I missed 2 pitches tonight. Shall we do the math together?

THEN AGAIN.........like I have posted on other threads, I know the coaches and they know me. The 2nd part of my comment may not work for others. But the first part sure will!

Here's one I heard from a coach that didn't know me...

He's walking back to the dugout from the 3B box after I've rung up his cleanup hitter for out number three.

Coach: "There's no way that could have been a strike. He's our best hitter, and he never strikes out!"

Me: "Well, I'm suitably honored."

I should have let him know that the last Triple Crown winner struck out 1,393 times in his career. That's 11.6% of his at-bats. :shrug:

[carolinablue]

I think the players should stop worrying about how the umpires are performimg and start worrying about how they are. The fielding and baserunning the entire post season has been horrendous.

[mstaylor]

Anybody see the safe call in the Yankees game last night. First time I've seen a manager sprint to an umpire. The call was exactly right but certainly unexpected.