RHP Set Position Question

[RightCallz]

In a recent 12u Nations Tournament Game, I saw a RHP coming set with his front foot angled about half way between home and first base so he could get a better look at R1. He certainly didn't have to turn his shoulder to view the runner as it was already turned about 45 degrees. Anything illegal about this set position? If not, I'm surprised more RHP's do not use it to hold runners close.

[JaxRolo]

Perfectly legal :rolleyes:

[NFUA_44]

In a recent 12u Nations Tournament Game, I saw a RHP coming set with his front foot angled about half way between home and first base so he could get a better look at R1. He certainly didn't have to turn his shoulder to view the runner as it was already turned about 45 degrees. Anything illegal about this set position? If not, I'm surprised more RHP's do not use it to hold runners close.

I'm having a little trouble seeing this. So your saying he starts with his feet open to the batter, and then comes set in much the same fashion?

I would say the bigger question is whether you view him as pitching from the "set" or if it's more of a "wind up" position since he never closes his feet and/or shoulders. Obviously if it's a wind up and he does a "set/pause" type of motion he has just balked.

I see plenty of F1's today who start out with their feet apart, almost like a wind-up where they have a good view R1, but they close their stance as they come "set".

Not 100% sure I'm seeing this clearly though.

[sdix00]

In a recent 12u Nations Tournament Game, I saw a RHP coming set with his front foot angled about half way between home and first base so he could get a better look at R1. He certainly didn't have to turn his shoulder to view the runner as it was already turned about 45 degrees. Anything illegal about this set position? If not, I'm surprised more RHP's do not use it to hold runners close.

I'm having a little trouble seeing this. So your saying he starts with his feet open to the batter, and then comes set in much the same fashion?

I would say the bigger question is whether you view him as pitching from the "set" or if it's more of a "wind up" position since he never closes his feet and/or shoulders. Obviously if it's a wind up and he does a "set/pause" type of motion he has just balked.

I see plenty of F1's today who start out with their feet apart, almost like a wind-up where they have a good view R1, but they close their stance as they come "set".

Not 100% sure I'm seeing this clearly though.

How has would he have balked here (in bold above)?

[NFUA_44]

In a recent 12u Nations Tournament Game, I saw a RHP coming set with his front foot angled about half way between home and first base so he could get a better look at R1. He certainly didn't have to turn his shoulder to view the runner as it was already turned about 45 degrees. Anything illegal about this set position? If not, I'm surprised more RHP's do not use it to hold runners close.

I'm having a little trouble seeing this. So your saying he starts with his feet open to the batter, and then comes set in much the same fashion?

I would say the bigger question is whether you view him as pitching from the "set" or if it's more of a "wind up" position since he never closes his feet and/or shoulders. Obviously if it's a wind up and he does a "set/pause" type of motion he has just balked.

I see plenty of F1's today who start out with their feet apart, almost like a wind-up where they have a good view R1, but they close their stance as they come "set".

Not 100% sure I'm seeing this clearly though.

How has would he have balked here (in bold above)?

It could just be me, and the way I'm picturing it. The point being that If he is in what is considered a wind-up, and he's bring his hands and feet together then "pausing" (as you would in coming set) it's not one continuous motion, and thus would be a balk.

He wants to start the set with his free foot somewhere on the 45 degree line, OK, I might see that, but he isn't gonna be coming set more towards 1B than HP.

[sdix00]

In a recent 12u Nations Tournament Game, I saw a RHP coming set with his front foot angled about half way between home and first base so he could get a better look at R1. He certainly didn't have to turn his shoulder to view the runner as it was already turned about 45 degrees. Anything illegal about this set position? If not, I'm surprised more RHP's do not use it to hold runners close.

I'm having a little trouble seeing this. So your saying he starts with his feet open to the batter, and then comes set in much the same fashion?

I would say the bigger question is whether you view him as pitching from the "set" or if it's more of a "wind up" position since he never closes his feet and/or shoulders. Obviously if it's a wind up and he does a "set/pause" type of motion he has just balked.

I see plenty of F1's today who start out with their feet apart, almost like a wind-up where they have a good view R1, but they close their stance as they come "set".

Not 100% sure I'm seeing this clearly though.

How has would he have balked here (in bold above)?

It could just be me, and the way I'm picturing it. The point being that If he is in what is considered a wind-up, and he's bring his hands and feet together then "pausing" (as you would in coming set) it's not one continuous motion, and thus would be a balk.

He wants to start the set with his free foot somewhere on the 45 degree line, OK, I might see that, but he isn't gonna be coming set more towards 1B than HP.

I don't see any violation here. Would be interested to know what rule you believe is being violated.

Assuming OBR, here.

[NFUA_44]

I don't see any violation here. Would be interested to know what rule you believe is being violated.

Assuming OBR, here

Sweet. Maybe digging into it will help clear it up in my mind. When I get home from work I will do the requisite digging and try to do a better job of describing it with some ref. material.

[carolinablue]

I have seen pitchers come set with a slight " tilt " towards 1B but nothing ridiculous. If it were exaggerated and his foot was more towards 1B than HP then that could be seen as a step towards 1B and require a throw, correct.

[Rich Ives]

I have seen pitchers come set with a slight " tilt " towards 1B but nothing ridiculous. If it were exaggerated and his foot was more towards 1B than HP then that could be seen as a step towards 1B and require a throw, correct.

Thats a real stretch and a half.

Just because something is unusual or "doesn't look right" doesn't mean it's illegal.

[carolinablue]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

[NFUA_44]

I don't see any violation here. Would be interested to know what rule you believe is being violated.

Assuming OBR, here.

From the JEA:

8.01 There arc two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position

may be used at any time. Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while standing on the rubber.

(a) The Windup Position. The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his entire pivot foot on, or in front

of and touching and not off the end of the pitcher's plate, and the other foot free. From this position any

natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without

interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery

of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

When a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his entire pivot foot on, or in

front of and touching but not off the end of the pitcher's plate, and his other foot free, he will be

considered in the Windup Position.

I'm assuming a Wind Up position here, as I stated originally. I realize the OP is talking about a Set position, but it's a little ambiguous as to which one this is. As a back drop see Jaska/Roder Pg. 132 The Stretch (8.01b), which says in part: When taking the stretch position, the pitcher must stand with his gloved side toward home plate.

I see many F1's start with this wider stance, but I have yet to see one that doesn't at least get most of their shoulder back towards the plate. I could be way off, like I said I'm having a hard time totally seeing it.

Note on Edit: To many quotes, or something to that effect, kept kicking it back at me so I just dumped the first part of the conversation, it is still listed above. Thanks

[JaxRolo]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

Incorrect.

If he is in contact with the rubber he must throw if he steps. If not it is a Balk.

[Thunderheads]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

Incorrect.

If he is in contact with the rubber he must throw if he steps. If not it is a Balk.

I think he missed a question mark there Rolando....

[JaxRolo]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

Incorrect.

If he is in contact with the rubber he must throw if he steps. If not it is a Balk.

I think he missed a question mark there Rolando....

Oh ok. Sorry!

[Thunderheads]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

Incorrect.

If he is in contact with the rubber he must throw if he steps. If not it is a Balk.

I think he missed a question mark there Rolando....

Oh ok. Sorry!

I had to read it twice or three times myself!:rolleyes:

[Rich Ives]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

To step you have to pick up the foot and move it in that direction. Starting that way isn't moving that way so it isn't a step.

Just because it's unusual doean't mean it's illegal.

[noumpere]

As a back drop see Jaska/Roder Pg. 132 The Stretch (8.01b), which says in part: When taking the stretch position, the pitcher must stand with his gloved side toward home plate.

That just means that the glove side cant be toward second base as some smart alecky rightie thought hed try with runners at first and second standing with left foot on the rubber so he copuld pick off easier.

Plus, its legal from the windup to bring both hands together and stop as long as thats the only motion and the umpire doesnt judge it to be the start of the pitch based on the speed and abrubtness that its done with.

In the first post its a legal position what the pitcher might gain with a pickoff being able to see the runner he loses by taking more time to the plate.

HS and college rules have some pretty specific requirements for feet placement for each of the positions but pro rules dont and there generally arent any issues with it at the pro level

[carolinablue]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

To step you have to pick up the foot and move it in that direction. Starting that way isn't moving that way so it isn't a step.

Just because it's unusual doean't mean it's illegal.

Rich, I was saying that the act of going from the stretch to the set position could be seen as a step towards first if he moves his front foot closer to 1B than to home in doing so. I have never seen it and probably never will but was just pointing that out. I acknowledege that I could be wrong but pitchers make moves from the stretch to 1B all the time without ever coming to the set position. I don't see why that would be any different.

[Rich Ives]

If a pitcher in contact steps towards 1B, is he not required to throw.

To step you have to pick up the foot and move it in that direction. Starting that way isn't moving that way so it isn't a step.

Just because it's unusual doean't mean it's illegal.

Rich, I was saying that the act of going from the stretch to the set position could be seen as a step towards first if he moves his front foot closer to 1B than to home in doing so. I have never seen it and probably never will but was just pointing that out. I acknowledege that I could be wrong but pitchers make moves from the stretch to 1B all the time without ever coming to the set position. I don't see why that would be any different.

Just because it looks unusual doesn't make it illegal. Too many inexperienced officials get caught in the "what the hell was that" trap and want to call something even if not proper.

[Atbrwn]

I've seen the set position he is talking about legal but the thing that gets most pitchers that do that is when they turn there head to look at first there shoulder flinches that's why most coaches don't teach that type of set