Quick pitch

[Mr Umpire]

Looking for mechanics on a quick pitch.

When the PU deems the pitcher has not allowed enough time for the batter to get set, how is it handled?

Should he call "Time" and say something like "Illegal pitch. That's a ball/balk." after the pitcher has delivered the pitch?

Or, do the same before the pitcher delivers it such as when he begins to lift his leg? I can see a problem with this one b/c the PU doesn't know if the pitcher will deliver the pitch or pickoff a runner.

Basically, is a quick pitch a DDB or stop it immediately and assess penalties?

My question is for safety purposes. Should the PU wait and let the pitch happen which would give the batter no time to react if he looks up with the pitch 10 feet from his face?

[gixxershane]

When doing the minors I usually hold up my hand for time out when the batter is getting in the box for safty reasons and to make sure I'm set before the pitcher decides he will throw the ball as soon as the batter gets in the box. You could probably use the whole rule 9.01 © for this lol. The coach I threw out on monday had an issue with that because his pitcher would start the wind up as the batter got in the box, it was my way of controling the tempo in the beginning of that game

Anything higher than 12 years old should know to call time if before they step in the batters box to set up if they need the time. If not, the ball is live and in play, and your fair game when you step in the box (unless he asks for time to get stet)

I could be way off, I'd like to see other opinions on this one

[Mr Umpire]

Well, I don't call "Time" for the batter to get in. I watch the pitcher to gauge his actions. If I feel the batter has enough reasonable time to get set, then the pitcher can pitch. I will not let him pitch as soon as the batter gets in the box. That should be discouraged and stopped immediately.

I am not asking how to judge that. I let the batter get his feet set and head looking at the pitcher as long as he is doing this as he is coming in. As long as he is not kicking dirt around, the pitcher will wait. Once I feel he has enough time, the pitcher can go. If I felt he didn't, then I will call the illegal pitch. Before the batter's first pitch, I will give him a little extra time to get comfortable.

My question is how/when to call the illegal pitch. After he has thrown it or before? And, what are the mechanics to make it clear of what I have just called.

And, as a side note, you may not want to call "Time" every time they do it in the box. Watch the pitcher to see what he is doing. If you feel the batter had enough time, then let the pitcher throw. By calling "Time" or just holding up your hand, you are preventing any other play from happening such as a pickoff move. And, while you have your hand up, "Time" is being called so no plays should be allowed to happen. Just a suggestion to help the game management work better for you and keep other issues from arising.

[gixxershane]

LL rule 5.09 © illegal pitch is under dead ball so I would call it as soon as it happens.

I guess it would depend on what rule set you are going by.

Edit:

Rule 8.05 (k) in the note part contrdicts that other rule saying if a play follows the illegal pitch the offensive manager can decied to keep the play, or the illegal pitch (ball). And if the batter reaches first, and every runner advances one base, play should proceed without reference to illegal pitch.

Then is a balk a dead ball under 5.09 ©???

So confusing

Edited July 2, 2009 by gixxershane

[Mr Umpire]

LL rule 5.09 © illegal pitch is under dead ball so I would call it as soon as it happens.

I guess it would depend on what rule set you are going by.

Edit:

Rule 8.05 (k) in the note part contrdicts that other rule saying if a play follows the illegal pitch the offensive manager can decied to keep the play, or the illegal pitch (ball). And if the batter reaches first, and every runner advances one base, play should proceed without reference to illegal pitch.

Then is a balk a dead ball under 5.09 ©???

So confusing

It can be. This is what I have gathered so far.

Some would stop it before it happens for 12 and under due to all of the safety issues. These are kids after all. 13 - 16 may be stopped, may not. 16 and up, let the pitch happen and then enforce the rules which apply.

OBR(which LL bases much on) - Pitch occurs. Illegal pitch is called. No runners on - ball, runners on - balk for the leagues which allow leading off. But, if the batter reaches 1B and all other runners advance 1 base, then no reference to the illegal pitch is made. Basically, it is a win-win for the offense.

Fed - No runners on - ball. Runners on - balk and immediate DB. No runners on and batter reaches 1B - no reference to it. Runner on - balk enforced and batter continues to bat.

So, the pitch has to occur to call the illegal pitch. So, it is made after the pitch has been thrown. Then, enforce any penalties if applicable. I can see the issues with calling it before the pitch is actually made. But, a lot of safety issues arise if waiting until after the pitch is made.

Sometimes, umpiring has many dilemmas we have to work through. I think I will go with waiting for those that allow leading off b/c the players learn more when a penalty is applied and it stops much quicker. I have had pitchers try this repeatedly b/c I have stopped them before they do it. It's a tough call to make but I have no problem doing it if it will stop it after 1 time rather than taking multiple times of saying "Time. Wait for the batter."

[willv28]

I had this experience last night. Had a pitcher who would start pitching as soon as the batter was in (not necessarily set, just as soon as they entered the box) sometimes, or at least as soon as the batter was making his stance. None were pulling a Nomar with rituals. So it made me a little upset. I put up my hand in a hold sign and see if he went through it. He did, it was called. Told the catcher what happened and he's not waiting for the batter to be ready (or even me for that matter). They at least waited until the batter was ready even if it was immediate.

[mstaylor]

This is a case of having to piece together rules. Remember in rule 2 there are two types of IP. I will do everything I can to stop a QP and I will enforce it accordingly. The other type of IP is pitching off the rubber. This an example of an IP that has to be delivered. A QP can be delivered but try to stop it if possible.

I almost never put my hand up to stop a pitcher. I used to but have stopped because if you stop it, you have to put it back in play. I pay NO ATTENTION to a kid holding his hand up. I will make sure they have plenty of time to get set, but the hand means nothing. Many times they will put their hand up and the pitcher isn't even on the rubber. Just make sure you curb quick pitching.

At the younger levels, I realize you may have to use the hand mechanic to slow them down.

[someoneinca]

You should point at the pitcher and yell "illegal pitch". Then allow the play to continue and see what happens.

It is the same mechanic as a balk call under OBR, but say "illegal pitch" instead of "balk"

[gixxershane]

This is a case of having to piece together rules. Remember in rule 2 there are two types of IP. I will do everything I can to stop a QP and I will enforce it accordingly. The other type of IP is pitching off the rubber. This an example of an IP that has to be delivered. A QP can be delivered but try to stop it if possible.

I almost never put my hand up to stop a pitcher. I used to but have stopped because if you stop it, you have to put it back in play. I pay NO ATTENTION to a kid holding his hand up. I will make sure they have plenty of time to get set, but the hand means nothing. Many times they will put their hand up and the pitcher isn't even on the rubber. Just make sure you curb quick pitching.

At the younger levels, I realize you may have to use the hand mechanic to slow them down.

this is why I do it.. I, so far, have only done LL majors and minors..:confused:

[Mr Umpire]

You should point at the pitcher and yell "illegal pitch". Then allow the play to continue and see what happens.

It is the same mechanic as a balk call under OBR, but say "illegal pitch" instead of "balk"

This is what I was looking for. For younger kids under 13, I would stop it immediately. 13 and up, I'll go with this since they learn better with consequences.

[alex7]

MrUmpire, just make sure that your 13 and over group isn't high school ball, otherwise it's an immediate "time" if there are runners on, just like any other balk.

[Mr Umpire]

MrUmpire, just make sure that your 13 and over group isn't high school ball, otherwise it's an immediate "time" if there are runners on, just like any other balk.

Right, since Fed stops the play. But, I don't care about Calvinball rules. ;)

[mstaylor]

If you are working LL then call the illegal pitch but allow the play to continue because there is an option play there. The coach has the option of the play or the illegal pitch. A quick pitch I would try to stop because of the danger but allow all other IPs to go through.

[Lhaber9]

in this case i would indicate that it was a quick pitch by saying it out loud, but allow the play to happen. if the hitter gets a hit, that hit counts. the offensive manager can elect to either take the quick pitch or the resulting play. for example,

Runners on first and third. the pitches commits a quick pitch, but the batter hits it to right field. on the catch the runner on third tags and scores. in this situation the umpire should ask the offensive manager if he wants the sac fly and resulting run, or if he wants the bases loaded with one less out. sometimes the decision will be obvious, for example if the batter were to hit a homerun it is obvious which the manger would choose. in that situation you do not need to ask the offensive manager.

[UmpJM]

... the offensive manager can elect to either take the quick pitch or the resulting play. for example,

Runners on first and third. the pitches commits a quick pitch, but the batter hits it to right field. on the catch the runner on third tags and scores. in this situation the umpire should ask the offensive manager if he wants the sac fly and resulting run, or if he wants the bases loaded with one less out. sometimes the decision will be obvious, for example if the batter were to hit a homerun it is obvious which the manger would choose. in that situation you do not need to ask the offensive manager.

Lhaber,

You are incorrect.

Like any other balk, a quick pitch with runners on base is either enforced or disregarded, depending on the outcome of the playiong option. It is NEVER an "option" for the offensive manager.

In your sitch, the balk would be enforced (R1 & R3 move up a base) and the batter would return to the plate with the same count he had prior to the quick pitch.

JM

[mstaylor]

UmpireJM:

I think he was responding to my quote about 60ft LL. There is no balks in 60 ft so it is an IP and there is an option. I have no idea why LL made it different but it is.

[Lhaber9]

no i was responding to a regular game, not necessarily a little league game. i think i may have gotten confused with another rule. in the same situation i said but instead of a quick pitch there was catcher interference called on the batters swing, the batter popped the ball to right and R3 scored on a sac fly. Then i believe it would be a decision for the offensive manager. I got this confused with the quick pitch? does this sound better? or am i just wrong completely?

[mstaylor]

No, you seem to be correct. CI has an option attached. A quick pitch is one of two illegal pitches, which is a ball with nobody on, a balk with runners. Once it becomes a balk there is no option, it is either a balk or ignored because the play overrules the balk.

[spiritump]

Do not look for more than it is--it is a quick pitch -just hold your right hand up tell the pitcher to wait for the batter--if picture continues-tell the catcher to slow him up--he will learn